Urgent Care :: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:59 pm   Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Noticed my turtle has some blood on its right arm - it seems to be caused by the sharp point on its bottom shell when the arm moves in and out. I was watching him and the red spot seems to be hit by the shell every time the arm goes in and out. I've been dry docking him since I noticed it. Photos attached!

Also, took a couple photos of the shell - it's very white. He has been basking quite a bit these days and I can see some of it loosening up but any way to speed it up?

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

How big is your turtle? Shell length is about 6 inches
How long have you had it? 10 years

What is the water temperature? 74 F
Did you use a thermometer? No
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? 15 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? No
Are you using any filtration? No

What is the basking temperature? 80 F
Is there a basking light? Yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Metal
Is there a UVB light? Yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Pellets, carrots
When was the last time your turtle ate? This morning

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? Decent-sized
Is the tank near a window? No
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Not really

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? See attached photos
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Blood 2
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Blood
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Blood 3
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Shell 2
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Shell
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:08 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

It does look like the gular scute is hitting his arm. It looks like he has grown a little too fast and has not had a change to shed properly. He also has shell fungus which probably means he didn't bask enough or couldn't fully dry off his shell regularly.

As long as the shedding process is starting, I would just leave it for a bit longer. Fungus sheds away, but never completely and will come back without medication. Fungus also makes shedding long and difficult. It traps water and debris, potentially causing other types of infection. Are any of them loose (when the shell is dry, and you press against it does water seep out)?
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:32 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Should I be worried about the red spot though? He is still very active so it seems like the scute is still hitting his arm.

Some of the top layers on both the top and bottom of my turtle are a bit loose - when it's dry no water seeps out. Are you seeing fungus on the top or bottom? I'm down to buy medication to get rid of the fungus once and for all - any suggestions?

Thank you!
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:35 am   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

The cut? I don't think there is much you can do. You can dry dock him to help it heal and minimize the injury, but you will most likely have to wait for him to shed or have a vet file it down which I would not recommend.

There is fungus on the top and bottom. It spreads quickly, and is contagious. If you had another turt in there, both would have it. For meds, the best is silver sulfadiazine cream, but you need to get a prescription in most countries.
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:22 am   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Thanks! Is the fungus the white parts of the shell??

The water in my area is also hard water so could it also be a build up of minerals??

Any suggestions for alternate creams/treatment method? Seems pretty difficult to get it as a prescription in Canada =(
My pharmacist friend mentioned nyaderm (nystain cream) is similar - do you think that could be used instead?

Did some additional reading and it seems like betadine could work. Is it sufficient with just betadine and dry docking?
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:36 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

There have been various mentioned on the forum, but I have not tried them. Most are OTC and the usage might be different. You can try betadine (I have), but I doubt it alone will work.
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:24 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Steve thanks for all your help so far!

I just got the silver sulfadiazine cream and was hoping you could help me with the exact procedure. I took the steps below from the fungus thread - can you let me know if this still works or if you have a better step-by-step guide? Last time I dry docked my turtle his hands started bleeding (I think from rubbing against the side of the rubbermaid tub) so hoping to get it right this time and cure his fungus once and for all

"
Clean infected areas thoroughly with a strong, undiluted betadine, iodine or Nolvasan solution. Let the turtle air dry in a warm setting for about 45 minutes.

Apply a generous coating of Silvadene cream. Work into problem areas.

Leave the turtle dry and warm, ensuring that you do not over-heat, for 18-21 hours each day.

The next day, scrub entire shell with a one of the previously mentioned solutions, using a soft-bristled toothbrush

Place them into fresh, clean water. Let them swim, drink and eat for approximately 1 - 1 ½ hours.
"

Thanks in advance!
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:42 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

I'd do things a bit different. Above all, make sure the tank is as clean as possible and your turtle basks often. A reoccurring fungus problem is even more difficult to deal with. First, try to remove the scutes that are very loose. Fungus works it way down, so remove the ones that don't matter. Have your dry-dock are ready to go. When you take your turtle out, wipe him down and make sure the shell is dry (should take less than 45 min). You can use betadine, Nolvasan, but it probably has little impact. I would use it if there are other issues, like a cut or opening in the shell. Apply a very very thin layer of the silver sulfadiazine cream but do make sure the problem areas are covered. I would leave it for 4 or so hours, clean the residue off and put the turtle back into the tank. In the past, I had the turtles out overnight, but I'm not sure there are additional benefits to that. If you want to dry dock that long, then I would still clean it off after a few hours.
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:27 am   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Thanks!

Since both his top and bottom shell seem to have fungus, can I apply a layer for both the top and bottom? I'm afraid the bottom might rub off once he starts moving around in the dry dock.

When I dry-dock him, should I put a dry or wet towel/t-shirt on the bottom of the container where he will be dry-docking?

When you say "clean the residue off", do I use water to wash off the silver sulfadiazine cream?

Lastly, is this a daily routine or should I do it a couple times a day?

Thank you so much!
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:40 am   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Yeah, you can do the top and bottom. Just make sure his dry dock area is clean and dry. If you plan on having him stay out overnight, I would use towel/shirts. Depending on the size of the dry dock area and how your turtle reacts, you will want to adjust it accordingly. To remove the residue, I would use a brush to scrub (something like a toothbrush or a soft dish brush) and some running water, just be careful as he will be very slippery from the cream. I would do it daily, and see how it goes. Maybe just try it on a small area first to see how it responds. If all goes well, things could clear up as soon as a week.
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:06 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Just to confirm, is the fungus the white part of the top shell? Basically most of the top is white
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:09 am   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Yup.
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:17 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

So after day 1 of the treatment yesterday with a small part of the shell and a 4 hour dry dock, a white spot appeared on my turtle’s head/neck that wasn’t there before the dry docking. Any idea what it is? It looks very concerning.
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:17 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Probably hard water deposit/dry lose skin. Should go away once back into the water.
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:46 pm   Re: Bleeding on Arm - Caused by shell?

Thanks!

Started the treatment and seems to be working so far. Quick question on applying it on the bottom - I put him in a rubbermaid box with a towel at the bottom when he dry docks for the 4 hours. Should I be worried that the towel will wipe away the silver sulfadiazine cream?

Also, I’ve attached picture of one part of the shell where it went from white to like green with a translucent layer. Am I doing this right?
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