Urgent Care :: Sick turtle with red spots

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:58 am   Sick turtle with red spots

See the full details below. We are trying to come to terms with what is happening to our RES Lucky. She is five years old this month and, up to this point, has been the picture of health — other than concern once after a little tumble and slight bleeding from a shell (which we went to the Vet for and treated with topical) about three years ago.

Well about 10 days ago we had noticed the tiniest of tiny red spot on the plastron, just below her neck. So tiny we were worried we thought she had cut herself and we were relieved when it wasn't blood (in retrospect we missed an early sign). Nothing else suggested illness, no respiratory issues, no breathing issues, no abnormal routines, totally active, eating as much as ever. We chalked it up to just a freak thing. On Saturday, six days later, we were both home and noticed for the first time that prior to basking she would just hang out at the bottom of the tank — pretty unusual for her to be inactive when at the bottom and then we noticed the red spot had become a red blotch on her plastron and there was some red on the inside of her carapace as well, near her skin. We immediately called the vet, who couldn't get her in until Monday a.m. Otherwise, throughout the weekend she was again mostly a picture of health when not hanging out on the bottom. Monday morning when we were getting her ready for the vet, she had slept on the bottom (usually she sleeps in her basking area), but when coaxed awake swam, ate, although she was a little more lethargic and now there was a red spot on her tail, but only slightly more lethargic than her usually hyper-active self.

The vet immediately confirmed the few things we knew: no obvious cuts, no scrapes, no shell issues (she had been shedding a little abnormaly, which the vet said she would have otherwise chalked up to just some humidity or something, not cause for concern on its own), her eyes were clear, nothing coming from her nose or mouth. We told her about our setup, a slightly small tank for her size (we live in NYC and a 50 gallon tank is literally all we can spare— in March we moved places and downgraded from a 75-gallon tank that was 3/5 full with in-tank basking area), but we have it filled to very top and built her an above tank basking area that nearly runs the distance of the tank. So no obvious reason why she could be showing signs of sepsis.

The doctor took X-Rays — no signs of pneumonia, no signs of an obstruction in her stomach, nothing to suggest a sick turtle. The doctor noticed her mouth and tongue were "slightly" pale. Unfortunately, Lucky's blood was so thin that they couldn't do adequate blood work, thus hard to know what else could be going on. She gave the turtle fluids, a shot of iron and a vitamin shot. She then prescribed Cefotaxime/Clarafan (something I have not seen for a turtle in any of my readings) — a total of 200 MG distributed in seven shots over seven days. She said it was the best as it would respond to gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, since we couldn't know for sure. She avoided using the word septicemia and said she hopes Lucky improves.

We did a 100 percent water change last night. We also changed a few things, a new filter pad or two, we scrubbed everything more intensely than usual (we typically do 100 percent changes every three to four weeks). I identified that in my homemade ramp there was some rusting from a metal element, so we removed that element. We warmed it up slightly (to like 92 degrees and her water to 88 degrees).

We gave the second shot this morning. She is noticeably more lethargic this morning than yesterday, swimming awkwardly across the tank and hanging her back legs. But she did eat veraciously. There are no new red spots we see, although the old ones haven't subsided. I want to attribute some of her increasing lethargy to the shots and overall stressful day. But we have accepted that something is wrong with our turtle, there is no logical cause to her illness and it very well may not be bacterial, and there may be no turning back from this.

Just curious if others have encountered anything close to this, a nearly perfectly healthy turtle could turn on a dime so quickly, even as it is unclear what the overall. Anything we are seeing that we missed? The vet really seemed super qualified, asked the right questions, but the fact she used an antibiotic I have never seen mentioned in the boards is slightly cause for concern.

For now we just worry when we are away and are hopeful that she doesn't fall off any more.

INFO:
How big is your turtle? 5.5 inches
How long have you had it? 5 years

What is the water temperature? 84 degrees
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? 50 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes
Are you using any filtration? Yes, XP4

What is the basking temperature? 90 degrees
Is there a basking light? Yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes,
What kind is it or what is it made out of? We built a custom plastic box that stands on top of 50-gallon tank, it runs about 30 inches by 11.5 inches and is carpeted
Is there a UVB light? Yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Red Leaf Lettuce, Anachoris, Reptamin, some carrot
When was the last time your turtle ate? This morning

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 50 gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? No
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? In our bedroom (we live in New York, small apartments and such)

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? See above
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:34 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Aww, I'm so sorry, I really hope she gets better. Unfortunately I have no idea =\ , but it's good you took her to the vet and treating with antibiotics. I hope it helps.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:34 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Turtles are expects at hiding if something is wrong. Usually when you notice a turtle is sick something was wrong for awhile and the turtle can no longer hid whats wrong. Thats why usually when you notice somethings wrong its seems so quick. They were just hiding it.

Sounds like vet is doing everything good. No spreading of the red also. Nothing really to offer. You just have to rid it through. As long as she is still eating thats very good.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:03 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Thanks to both of you. At least it helps us feel a little less helpless, knowing we have done what we can do. The turtle is so dynamic and lively, hard to see her slowed down. Hopefully I'll be back to report some progress soon.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:19 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

So we returned home for work and she couldn't swim. There is now a red spot on her face, she is listless and breathing with her mouth open. We have reached out to two vets we have worked with over the years hoping to get any advice on any course of action we might have left, but short of this being a reaction to the antibiotics before she starts to heal, we don't know what is left to do. Thoughts?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:19 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Any chance you can take pics of the red spots. If the red spots are now spreading it sounds like septicemia. Which if the red starts spreading more its in the advance stages. Its very deadly and unfortunately if it is at that stage survival is low. From reading what the last vet subscribed they are treating with the right stuff. There really isn't nothing more you can do. I think going to another vet would not produce different results, just more unneeded expenses. Sorry I cant give better news. I had to deal with this myself last spring with a turtle.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:51 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

No problem. Here are the photos. You can't really see on her face real well.

Although I think just toying with our emotions, after dry docking her for an hour she started walking around and then we put her in her small tank to feed her and she just kept eating, lots of lettuce and pellets, then she peed and had a regular bowel movement. But yeah we are scared, like you say, it seems to be in advanced stages at this point and can't be stopped. here are some spots on her skin and shell and a bit of her face although you can't see it well. The redness on her tail has gone down, but again a new spot on her face... There is also redness on the underside of her carapace, but I didn't want to jostle or bother her (note the awkward shedding, which again the vet didn't think too unusual, under other normal circumstances.

Also no more labored breathing.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

It's so obvious you care about her, I hope she pulls through. As far the symptoms... a little pinkish coloring where the skin meets the shell is normal. A little pinkish on some areas of the skin I would think is normal too... loose/shedding skin + some pinkish water borne bacteria. I am not sure about the thin blood reasoning... I don't think I have ever heard of it. Was any blood drawn? Antibiotics usually inhibit appetite which might be what you're observing. I do not see Cefotaxime/Clarafan covered anywhere for reptiles either, so I do have a bit of concern about that. I don't want to question your vet's expertise, but there are some proven options out there. I'm not sure about the red marks on the shell, could that be scratched off?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:48 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Yeah, I am not sure she said that it was hemoglobin or something a little over my head, but essentially whatever they drew just couldn't be trusted. There is one other herp vet that we are just going to consult with and see if we are out of options. Again, she is back in the tank and swimming better, but we also noticed some pinkness on the bottom of her shell. It seems like whatever it is isn't improving, and if it really is septicemia, it's spread even with antibiotic dosage is alarming. But if we talk to the vet tomorrow and at least he thinks the current course is our last best hope. Obviously we are broken hearted that she was so vibrant and still eating and showing flashes of herself and knowing thee just may not be any options left — that in just three days she could go from business as usual to thinking about pain management. Ugh. But thanks everybody for the support and thoughts.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:08 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Id say its septicemia that red, ill never forget that red of septicemia, the red would also fade in and out for me. Here is pics of my turtle that had septicemia, this is full blown. The red really likely to appear at the edges of scutes.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:16 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Wow, that is bright red. We haven't really had anything close to that bright, but she is darker so perhaps it is brighter than it seems. Just we keep holding out hope that she is swimming fine, eating, drinking and going to the bathroom. I'll let you know after we chat with the other vet tomorrow.

Also, your turtle was beautiful and you said it didn't work out?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:24 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

turtleguy65 wrote: Also, your turtle was beautiful and you said it didn't work out?


Yea since he is mostly white the red is very noticeable. The really red spots only got that red at the end. Worst feeling in the world when the vet tells you your turtle most likely wont make it. Sadly he passed away after fighting it for about a month. He was one of my favorites too I owned.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:58 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Was she really stressed out while in the dry dock? If not, maybe you should continue to do so until she fights it completely. Keeping the dry dock at 85-88F at all times since she won't have a choice to cool off in the water at her leisure. You'll still have to provide UVB during the day... and of course you'll have to put her in water to eat and void once or twice a day In shallow super clean water. Maybe not having to swim and being confined will force her to spend all her energy healing.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:38 pm   Re: Sick turtle with red spots

Hello All,

My RES might have a similar if not the same issue. Do you have any updates to what happen to your turtle and the spots? Thank you in advance.
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