Habitat - Indoor :: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Turtle tank setups and other indoor configurations.

Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:57 pm   Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Just a quick question: At the moment I am using a Zilla Fresh Air Screen as a cover and it works wonderfully. It fits the tank beautifully, the basking area temperature is wonderful, and it prevents any hypothetical escape attempts (As far as I know Shelldon does not seem to want to escape from the tank) and it would stop the lamps from falling in (though the lamps have been very stable).

Link to the product description on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Zilla-Reptile-Te ... B000QFQ30K

My only concern is UVB. ATM I am using a Zoomed 50 Watt Heat Bulb with UVA, and an Exoterra UVB 100 bulb 26W, both about one foot from the basking area (using the Zoomed lamp stand and dual lamp) to provide a good temperature (ranging from around 87-91 degrees F, with multiple measurements), and proper UVB distance (according to the lighting guide on the lightbulb box). But since the Zilla Fresh Air Screen has a tight grid, I'm concerned that she is not getting enough UVB. The grid seems to be half a cm, and I read in the Habitat section that that could restrict UVB light. It is vexing though, as I love everything else about this screen... I have hardware cloth with 0.5 inch grids I can use to make a new one if necessary, but I am rather fond of the Zilla Fresh Air Screen. Any thoughts?

In terms of basking behavior, Shelldon basks frequently, both in focus basks, and bask bursts, where she will go up and down the ramp repeatedly for a period of time.

I've used this screen for about 7-8 months, and I have not detected any obvious problems but...

Thank you,



What is the water temperature? 78 Degrees F
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? About 23.3 Gallons
Current Tank: 40 Gallon Tank Breeder
Tank Width: 17 In. W


Total Tank Depth: Around 17 In.H

Water Depth: 10 In. (Add 4 In. to Carapace Length)

Length: About 48 In L

Are you using a water conditioner? Yes
Are you using any filtration? Yes

What is the basking temperature? 88.2 Degrees F
Is there a basking light? Yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Oasis Turtle Ramp (Large)
Is there a UVB light? Yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Vegetables and Pellets
When was the last time your turtle ate? This afternoon

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure?
Is the tank near a window? No
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? No

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? No
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:36 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

It's likely filtering some of the UVB. UVB bulbs are not particularly strong to begin with, so I would make sure she has some vit d3 in her diet. How big is Shelldon now? Adult turtles could probably be OK with less UVB than growing turts.
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:48 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Shelldon is about 6.5 in and her size has been around 6 to 6.5 in since around 2014. Vitamin D3 is present in her Omega, Zoomed and Mazuri pellets. Zoomed pellets were formerly the entirety of the pellet portion of her diet, and now the pellet portion of her diet consists largely of omega pellets along with small portions of mazuri, zoomed, and reptomin pellets
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:55 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Does she get any time outdoors? Maybe you can remove the screen when you're home?
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:51 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

In Minnesota, the temperature is frequently unstable, so outdoor time is generally not a good idea. I have been considering giving her some outdoor time, but it would be on a "when everything is just so" routine. It would be impossible to make a schedule for that. My goal is to make sure she is okay in her tank.

A lot of the screen's purpose is to stop a possible worst case scenario of the lamps falling into the water. Possible escape attempts are something I could monitor, but then bad things (such as lamps that are on) could get in.

If the combination of the UVB Lamp, Zilla Fresh Air Screen, and Vitamin D3 supplements in the pellets is not enough, I could certainly use the hardware cloth as a cover instead. I am generally rather hesitant to change things, particularly in regards to Shelldon, but if she needs more UVB, then she needs more UVB. I just do not know if she does or not... That is my main question.

As some sub questions, in the event that I do take her outside, how would you recommend I do that? I have a carrying case, and it might be possible for me to get an inflatable pool for such outside outings. What would you recommend the protocol be for such outings in terms of water (if she is in the carrying case, spraying and all that), how long, temperature monitoring, etc.?
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:26 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

I totally understand. Nothing can compare to the UVB from the sun, but there isn't a known minimum for them to be healthy. Getting outside once in a while will be pretty beneficial and I aim for the low 70's - 80's. In the low 70's, I make sure there it isn't windy or cloudy.

For the tank, I think hardware cloth would also provide escape protection and added security from the lights.
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:45 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Well I made a Hardware Cloth cover, and it seems to be functional in terms of lamp stoppers in the event of gravity, escape attempts, and less UVB filtration. Shelldon basked like normal with it on, and the basking area temperature was quite stable, but my paranoid head won't stop running through what-if scenarios, and one that could happen is a lightbulb exploding...

The thought of glass lightbulb pieces falling into the tank... And Shelldon (Gulp) eating them! The very thought horrifies me...

It isn't exactly an unlikely scenario. Though it has not happened yet, Shelldon is a bit of a splashy turtle... It would not surprise me if water hit one of the bulbs...

Would a .5 inch mesh stop that from happening?

I know I am making this issue overly complicated, but it seems like there are pros and cons to having a tighter vs a wider mesh size... Hardware cloth certainly does seem like a good material, and if/when I do upgrade the tank size, it will certainly come in handy as a cover, but in terms of mesh size, in the end, I have no idea what to do. I do want Shelldon to have as much UVB/Vitamin D3 as she needs but I want her protected from emergency situations too...







I do plan to give Shelldon some outdoor time with the following plan:

7:27 AM: Wake up, get cleaned up, and if the weather looks okay, give Shelldon about an hour? of basking time in the carrying case, while making sure she does not get out, and whilst monitoring the temperature (70-85 degrees F would kind of be the good range, sort of like with transporting, would not do so if 70-75 with wind per your suggestion).

Any thoughts on this plan? Would you recommend I feed Shelldon before or after this basking time? On the one hand, basking is a good after-meal activity, but I don't want Shelldon stressed out after eating, since handling her is kind of stressful for her... I don't want her getting a tummy ache...
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:06 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

What kind of bulbs are you using and how close are they? I haven't had a bulb shatter before, and the ones who had were using standard incandescents. Are your equipment plugged into GFCI outlets or breakers?
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:30 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

The bulbs are about one foot from the basking area and about 13 inches from the water.

The bulbs in question are a Zoomed Basking Bulb (50 Watt w/ UVA) and an Exoterra 100 UVB 26 Watt.

Though the bulbs are not above water due to the basking ramp, Shelldon is a splashy turtle and water frequently gets pretty close...

The bulbs are connected to an extension cord, which is connected to a timer, which is connected to a socket



Whether the possibility is likely or not, I would like Shelldon to be protected from such a scenario...


I talked with Shelldon's vet and he said that she was very likely getting enough UVB using the Zilla screen, since the bulbs are fairly close to the ramp, so even with some filtering she should be getting enough, not to mention with the vitamin D3 in her pellets. That being said, I do plan to give her some outdoor time when weather permits.
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:58 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Is the screen like a standard insect screen? I have a UVB meter, maybe I can set up a simple test at home to see how much is blocked.
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:31 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

https://www.amazon.com/Zilla-Reptile-Te ... B000QFQ30K

The screen is the one listed in the link above. I am not familiar with insect screens so I cannot attest to this one's similarity to them or lack thereof.

The bulbs in question are a Zoomed Basking Bulb (50 Watt w/ UVA) and an Exoterra 100 UVB 26 Watt.

The lamps in question are the Zoomed lamp stand and dual lamp. They are suspended one foot from the Oasis Turtle Ramp (Large), and 7 inches from the screen. The lamps are positioned so that they are both in the middle flat section of the ramp, with the uvb lamp closer to the entrance ramp, and the basking ramp closer to the "dive ramp" (The top portion of the ramp where Shelldon likes to dive off of)
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:26 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

What's the distance from the turtle to the UVB?
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:06 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Shelldon is about 2 Inches high, So I would presume 10 Inches Away at the highest point, and about 12 inches away at the lowest point
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:57 pm   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

So I was able to borrow a UVB meter to measure the output.
Without the cover, there is about 50-52 µm/cm2 of UVB going to the ramp
With the hardwire cloth cover, there is about 43-45 µm/cm2 of UVB going through
With the Zilla Fresh Air screen cover, there is about 31-33 µm/cm2 going through.

In the Heat Lamp area portion of the dual lamp, there is about 23-24 µm/cm2 (A more general measurement, as I was curious if there was UVB there was on the other side of the lamp, was not particularly part of the experiment itself, and did not compare with the screens)

So there is some blockage of UVB going through. However, the Exoterra lighting guide on the back of the UVB bulb (which can also be accessed here: (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/reptile_uvb100.php) seems to recommend 8-20 µm/cm2 of UVB going through for two star creatures, which Shelldon and other Red-Eared Sliders are (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/explore/uv_rating_index.php) (Coinciding with a distance of 12-16 inches from the lamp). All in all, Shelldon seems to be getting enough UVB, if the Exoterra lighting guide is any indication of how much she should be getting. The UVB lamp is at the entrance to the ramp (and the only entrance at that), so even if Shelldon is more interested in heat than UVB, she is at least getting a good amount upon entering the basking area, and it would appear she gets some in the heat area too, if the general heat area measurement is any indication
Gerstein
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:46 am   Re: Zilla Fresh Air Screen-Enough UVB Getting Through?

Thanks for the update. I'm surprised the Fresh Air cover did not block more UVB. I'm also a bit surprised the bulb is putting out that much. How new/old is the bulb?
User avatar
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 29846
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male

Next

Return to Habitat - Indoor

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests