Habitat - Outdoor :: Turtles ready for the great outdoors!!!

[V Lou]

Hi Everyone,
It has been a long time since I last logged on. Have been most busy. My two little turtle-girls are almost all grown up and ready to go from a 75 gal with ATBA, which they enjoyed very much while growing up, to something that's as big as I can get for them.

I considered the used swimming pools on CL and thought naaaa. Wouldn't look good in my yard. The price was right, though. And, blue looked good.... My turtle's child's swimming pool has done so well for the last couple of years, but one of my turtles, Otani, can almost climb out of it. She peers over the edge looking for escape ideas.
(If you would like to skip the following story, scroll down to the *....)

I thought I would try leaving the turtles outside in the kid's swimming pool, since they were showing signs of cabin fever in their aquarium. While I was sleeping, the neighborhood raccoon got into the swimming pool, and apparently thought the turts were rocks, but found the goldfish tasty, ...the slower ones, that is, were tasty. So, the kid's swimming pool is too shallow for nighttime use. (I totally knew that, but shoot, the turtles like it out there so much and were saying, "Ah, come-on, just one night? We promise we'll be okay...." Right.)

So, I bet you're wondering, about the turtles being rocks. Well, the raccoon and her baby let the turtles go, so they probably didn't realize the sizable meals they had found. I finally found my turtles wandering in the yard thinking FREEDOM!!!! Well, maybe only one was thinking that. She made it really far, from one side of the backyard to the far end out toward the street! The other was pretty close to the pond still, on her back and all covered in pine needle camouflage. No injuries to either of them. They just had an adventure. But, I didn't like getting up at 4am when my kitty started whining pitifully to wake me up. He is obviously my volunteer raccoon alarm/turtle body guard. Anyway, it took 2 hours using a flashlight to find the turtles and rescue the rest of the fish, set up emergency quarters for the fish, an observation station for the turtles and finally get back to bed. I am totally not a morning person

So the future is now. It is time to get completely focused and seriously build them a top-notch, outdoor turtle haven.

*.... I need lots of your fabulous advice. CL has 2-300 gal blue livestock tanks for sale. I'm renting a Uhaul to go out and pick those up at the ole farm sometime this weekend.

I don't know about pond filtration. I have an Eheim 3e Pro and a Fluval 405, both of which I use for my 75 gal setup. If I convert my 75 gal to a fish tank, I wouldn't need those large pumps for fish waste (?), I guess/wonder... so could I use those two filters with my two stock tanks? Or do you have to have a completely different filtration system or a combination Eheim/Fluval/something else? I don't know how a filter would handle pine needles and cottonwood tree leaves,... help, please!!!

Do stock tank heaters work for turtle habitats? I know that hibernation is something like 40-43F. I guess both tanks need a water fountain to keep the water flowing? Or would the pumps be enough water movement to help avoid winter freezing, so no need for an additional fountain... I'm in CO, so winters get down to -10F sometimes, -22 rarely. Would the water within the Eheim/Fluval/something else tank itself freeze in a cold winter?

As far as setting up the two tanks, do you think this sounds like an okay plan so far?
This is my plan:
Position the two tanks with an appealing offset to each other, relative to a rectangular grape stake fence with rounded ends that will surround them. The two drains will be positioned close to each other and toward the back. Pumps/filters will be positioned toward the back and enclosed within an electrically safe box (?). There will be cedar grape stake sunning decks along both front and back to cover the spaces between the two offset tanks and the surrounding fence, making it impossible for the turtles to slip down between the tanks and fence. There will be a bridge, a sunning bridge, in the middle where the two tanks meet, continuous with the front and back decks. The bridge will have ramps going into the water of both tanks allowing the turtles to walk out, up and over into the next tank, or to just sun. The bridge and sundecks will form a seamless seal so that there will be no cracks for the turtles to fall through. The electrical equipment will be under it's own portion of the deck in back, its shape depending on the size of the box, etc. Grapes stake fence boards forming the fence will be cut to stand 4' high to encircle the two tanks (which are about 2' high), the sundecks, and the electrical box area like wall paneling. There will be no sharp corners to the vertical fence, so I don't think the turtles can get a wedge to use to climb out. I think they will stay put and have deck space plus up to 600 gal for ample room to roam and be happy.

I don't want to have this in my yard, but I am committed to these two girls. I hope the grape stake fence (paneling) surrounding the tanks/decks it will be a nice backdrop for some flowers and ground cover of some kind. Any suggestions? At least the boards match the fence surrounding my yard, so the enclosure might sort of blend in.

For access to clean or do whatever with the two tanks, the 4' vertical fence will be hinged along the two straight-aways, front and back, at about 1/2 way up to swing toward me and down out of the way. These "gates" will have latches to secure them in place while they are up. It's difficult to put that into words.... That way, gates are not being swung open, scraping up ground cover.

I have a spot in mind, sunny with late afternoon shade. It's sort of bigger than a spot, I guess...

Okay, what do ya think? I hope to do this right the first time.

[V Lou]

Given that I will use these two 320 gallon stock tanks for my turtles, I'm wondering about the best way to filter the water.
The tanks have a 6 foot diameter and are 2 feet deep.

Which pond filter and pump do you think I should get?

How might I, how do you protect a pond's filtration system's electrical components from the weather?

[steve]

Wow, close call with those raccoons! I don't really have much to offer in the pond information department, but I'm sure you'll receive more feedback soon.

If you plan to keep them out year-round or just during warmer weather will determine what you need to do. I don't think 320 gallons is enough water for a freezing environment. Your standard aquarium equipment should also not be used in extreme conditions.

Will your RES be together or separated?

[V Lou]

Thank you for your reply, Steve. The raccoon comes back every night now

The average winter high temp is in the low 40's (which may take it all day long to reach) and down to way cold for lows. Once in a long while, we might have a year with below 0's for days.

Maybe I should post on a farm forum, too, to see how they keep their stock tanks from freezing around here. Livestock owners I have spoken to so far (3) say that the tank heaters keep the water in the 40's and that the less the gallons, the easier it is to keep it from freezing. Plus, they say that if I keep the water moving, that helps. But, I totally don't know. I need more opinions.

I'm trying to keep them out year round. A woman here in town keeps hers out year round, as I understand. I'm trying still to reach her.
Worst comes to worst, I do know how and have successfully wintered-over turtles, so there is that. I prefer to make these tanks work, though.

I have two tanks in case I need to separate the turtles. Still watching their behavior, and there has been no more biting so far. They are sharing a tank with about only a foot of water (6' diameter), since I will be emptying the tank soon to move it and build the pond structure. I bring them in at night, one to the bathtub with a heater and the other to the aquarium. Poor babies. I cannot wait until this is settled. They are in the 8-9" range, size-wise.

I think that for evening critters, I will be able to design a cover that will fit over each tank and the decks, with an air space or incorporate some kind of mesh ... wouldn't used trampoline material stretched across be cool... I can just see a fox jumping on it... anyway, some material that is not too heavy for me to lift (,i.e. not wooden). I could set that in place each night.

Thank you for letting me know that the Floval and Eheim won't work. OK. Pond filter/pump then. I look so forward to opinions on which ones are best types/brands.

As the design evolves, I'm getting pretty excited about doing this thing. I met a special person the other day while I picked out the right barrels to include next to the tanks to hold my turtles' dirt/sand. Unfortunately, she happened to meet me while I was all mushy and teary about how much these turtles mean to me and how important this is, regardless of how irrational due to the $$$; it's ALL important that they have a wonderful environment. Sort of a lifelong dream for me that I am finally getting to realize. I must have reincarnated from a pet turtle in one of my past lives. That might explain my passion and drive to do this as Right as I can get it.

I appreciate any and ALL help accomplishing this. Cold weather is right around the corner and unfortunately I'm in an emergency situation, since one of the turtles went stir-crazy and started biting. It was her way of telling me to wake up and do something.... My builder friend is doing all he can to help me get this right. We need to know the dimensions of the filter/pump/etc. so we can get them, design and build. I appreciate any help you have to offer. Basically: filter systems, aeration, keeping the water around and not below ~40F or 6C during the winter. I do love these turtles. Thank you so much for helping.

[V Lou]

Ah, a chicken wire screen across the top, multiple sections framed with 2x2 cedar boards, secured at about 18" above the tanks/decks/sand, fitting inside the surrounding "fence" and anchored into the internal frame that the cedar fence pickets will be screwed into. The top edge of the cedar pickets would extend ~6" beyond the screen, because the fence rises above the tanks by 2 feet (2 foot deep tanks, 4 foot tall fence starting at ground level). The screens would be designed and installed to hold the weight of any ambitious fox or raccoon. The chicken wire screens would remain in place 24/7 and could be easily removed by unlatching whichever one(s) I need to. Yup.

Any warnings someone has, any suggestions, etc.??

[steve]

Were you able to contact that other person? You might want to reach out to the Colorado Herpetological Society - http://www.coloherps.org/ and inform them of your plans and available supplies.

[V Lou]

The person did contact me, but only in passing. Still working on that. Meanwhile, I spent the last 3 days shopping I took some 'before' pix and may get to upload them tomorrow.
I have one 1050 gal pump for each 320 tank. Each pump's mech/bio filter is rated for 2000 gal. Each pump/filter will intake and return into its own tank. The 2 tank drains will be linked via hoses, a T, and an easily accessible stopcock for periodic draining out the back. I have the bridge ramps, so that the turtles can climb easily out of the water, and interesting little mini-ponds from Home Depot for the filtered water to fill upon its return and waterfall back into the tanks. I won't know until I try, but I hope the return water doesn't go shooting 10' into the distant trees, instead of filling the little pond/reservoirs. Ah, it will be fun to test it out, at least.

Before I get the pumps or filters wet, I'll contact the CO Herp. Soc. to run my plans past them. Thank you for that.

Oh, yes, and I have a supply of those mosquito larvae killer doughnuts. I've found that placing a doughnut inside a dental retainer case prevents the turtles from eating the doughnut. The retainer case has to have air vents for water to freely get inside and wet the doughnut, and for the bacteria to escape and populate the pond water.

Got to run....

[Jay-Jakk]

Instead of the doughnuts you could get some guppies. They like to stay near the top of the water and munch on anything they see- larvae included. As an added bonus they reproduce like bunnies and they can serve as a snack for your Turts. I've been using them since late May and there hasn't been any more mosquitoes than the ordinary amount. Good luck with your pond

[V Lou]

Thank you so much for that

Once the pond is set up with the filter/pumps, I could put fish in and that will be fun. Guppies are so colorful. Right now, I replace the water each week; no way to catch the fish, etc. I'll have to wait until the pond is setup permanently.

My turtles get along very well, now that they have a bit more room.
Until an electrician gets elec. supply out there so that I can get the whole setup built, they are in just one tank and it is about 10" full. I have a screen across the top held down with a bungy cord system so that birds cannot get to the turtles. It's ugly, but it works for now. At night I have to think about that raccoon, though. It tried to get to them again. I went out there, middle of the night, and tried to shoo it away. It was a different raccoon this time. It was a very, very big raccoon. I had never seen such a big one ever before. Man! So, since it and I were about the same size (just a little exaggeration) it thought I might be fun to play with. I had to run inside. My Turtles! Then I remembered the water hose.

I have two water hoses. One for the garden, to water plants, and one that is for potable water for the tank. They are connected to the spicket via a "y" type of adapter. Anyway, middle of the night, "playful" raccoon, I went out there and tried to figure out how to get the Y set up right for the water to go out the hose with the sprayer on the end. Raccoon chased me. !!! I had to keep running inside way fast! Eventually, I started pulling on the correct hose to pull it toward me, now close to the door. The raccoon stopped chasing me to instead go after the noise the moving hose sprayer was making as it slid along the ground. All of this was happening really fast. Should have seen that raccoon. Like a puppy dog, only bigger. Jumping and leaping after that brass sprayer as I reeled it in, while I was half scared to death. As I reeled in the hose (a 50'er) and the end got closer to me, so did this prancing raccoon. It was so scary! I had to shoo it again, throwing down the hose, and running inside (this was so comical) then running back out... in and out... finally I had a hold of the spray nozzle. OH, it was scary. The raccoon wanted it! I let'r rip. I sprayed water at that raccoon and oh it ran. Pretty funny. No one was being hurt. Just a water spray. It ran to the back fence, along the side fence and out of my field of view, well, from its perspective, my field of spray. Man, that was a big raccoon.

I checked and the turtles were fine, just fine. I looked around and noticed I had a board that spans their tank, and about 15" wide, 1/2" or so thick. I placed the board on top of their tank/wire mesh. Then I lifted the other 320 gallon (empty) tank on top of the board, balancing it above the tank that has the turtles inside it. Perfect. There is about a 4" space all the way around, since the bottom of the top tank is narrower than the top of the bottom tank, so the turtles can see, get air, etc. and that raccoon is in no way going to get inside.

Now I go out every morning/evening to uncover/cover the turtles.

I just need to get a break from work so I can get an electrician out here to yada yada, and we can build that awesome pond set up I have in mind. The turtles will love it. No time yet to post pictures.