Habitat - Outdoor :: 2 questions

[Myrtle]

Do ducks, swans, or geese eat baby turtles?
How old must a turtle be to hibernate? -or how big?
Thank you

[STRAYKINGFISHER]

There is alot of things that have to be in place for a turtle to be able to hibernate, if you have no experience hibernating your turtle, I would not try it, your turtle could die.

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TurtleHibernation
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Hibernating Turtles

Larry N. White, DVM

Much difference of opinion exists concerning the necessity of hibernating pet turtles. While many captive turtles have lived for years in captivity without undergoing a period of winter dormancy, virtually all reptile breeders and serious hobbyists will provide for a period of cooling every year for those species which become dormant in the wild. This period of dormancy serves to normalize the reproductive cycles of these animals. Some species cannot be bred successfully without it.

Most native North American chelonians will begin to go off food in the fall of the year when the temperatures begin to drop into the fifties. Some animals which are kept indoors will also begin to slow down in October or November. Owners notice that their turtles begin to refuse food and will often try to bury themselves in the substrate of their container.

If a decision is made to hibernate your turtle, there are a few preparations that should be made. Approximately four to six weeks before hibernation is to begin, the animals should be fed plenty of high energy food, paying particular attention to supplying plenty of vitamins A and D3. For vegetarian species a diet with high carbohydrate content such as squash, mixed fruits (figs, melons, apples, peaches), sprouts, and soaked alfalfa pellets, and monkey biscuit is good. For aquatic species, whole fish, soaked dog food, soaked trout chow, newborn mice, and earthworms will suffice. Approximately seven to ten days before placing into hibernation food should be withheld in order to allow food present in the gastrointestinal tract to be digested. If the animals are allowed to cool immediately after eating, the ingested food will spoil in the digestive tract and may result in the death of the animal.

Animals which are to be hibernated should be examined carefully to make sure that no infectious diseases are present. Infections of the respiratory system are especially devastating. A turtle which enters hibernation with a mild respiratory infection will likely die from pneumonia during hibernation or shortly after emerging. Turtles with respiratory disease will frequently have swollen eyes and a discharge from the nostrils. If the turtle will extend its head, try to gently put pressure on the throat. If mucus comes from the nostrils, this is an indication of respiratory disease. Turtles which continually extend their head and open the mouth frequently are manifesting difficulty in breathing. Aquatic turtles which exhibit a tilting to one side while in the water are usually suffering from severe respiratory disease. Aquatic turtles which remain on their basking surface at night should be examined carefully, as this may be an indication of disease. Ideally, turtles destined for hibernation should be checked for internal parasitism and treated appropriately if found to be harboring parasites. Check the skin and shell carefully for evidence of hemorrhages. If found, these animals should be treated aggressively with antibiotics. If a turtle appears to be too light when picked up, compared with others of the same shell size, don\'t hibernate them. Box turtles are especially prone to abscesses involving the middle ear cavity. This will manifest as a swelling on the side of the head behind the eye. These abscesses should be emptied and packed with antibiotics before hibernating. An experienced reptile veterinarian can perform this procedure safely. In summary, a turtle which is to be hibernated should be in as close to optimum condition as possible before cooling.

Many different methods have been used successfully for overwintering. Turtles which have been living freely in a yard will usually bury themselves if a well drained area is provided. Try to provide a good deep pile of leaves or mulch over soft soil. The turtles will usually disappear for the winter and emerge on warm days, or in the spring. Aquatic turtles which are kept in an outdoor pond will usually overwinter in the pond with no problem if adequate depth is provided. I recommend at least 18 inches to keep the water temperature from fluctuating too much. Turtles can also be placed in an old Styrofoam cooler with several holes drilled in the side several inches from the top for ventilation. Place several inches of top soil mixed with sphagnum peat which has been slightly moistened in the bottom of the container, and cover this with several inches of leaves, hay, or sphagnum moss. Whatever container is used, it should be placed in a dark cool area away from any source of heat, such as radiators or water heaters. The ideal temperature should be approximately 50 F. Hibernating turtles which are native to temperate climates are able to withstand colder temperatures than this, but freezing should be avoided. One very effective method for hibernation that I use for larger numbers of animals of my own involves using a commercial grade refrigerator which is used by florists for storing flowers. I have placed a more sensitive thermostat on the unit and am able to slowly lower the temperature week by week, and can keep the temperature within a few degrees of what I desire by adjusting the thermostat. Although these coolers are fairly expensive to purchase new, good bargains can often be found in the used market, and should be considered by those having large numbers of animals to hibernate. I currently have over 25 reptiles in hibernation in mine.

Animals in hibernation should be checked periodically to make sure that no problems are developing. Animals which are active and moving about on the surface frequently are having problems, and should be slowly warmed back up and kept out of hibernation. I like to gently soak my animals every three or four weeks in order to prevent dehydration. Hibernating turtles will frequently have a mucus material in their eyes which will clear after soaking. This soaking doesn\'t need to be an extended period. Five minutes will do. I try to leave my own animals in hibernation for at least eight weeks, and frequently up to twelve weeks. Animals from the extreme southern United States will generally do well with five to six weeks of cooling.

As the spring arrives I recommend bringing the animals out of hibernation and soaking them for at least thirty minutes. This will allow the animals to rehydrate themselves and void any waste. Usually within two weeks the animals will resume feeding and may begin to exhibit breeding behavior. The animals should be checked closely after emerging, and any signs of illness should be attended to promptly.

A common mistake made by many people during the winter months is to not provide for adequate cooling. Often reptiles are kept too cool to eat and digest, but too warm to become torpid. These animals will frequently be presented in the late winter or spring with full blown respiratory infections. Temperatures around 50 F. will generally allow the animals to cool effectively.

All of the above information pertains to turtles and tortoises from temperate climates. I do not recommend cooling of animals from a tropical area of the world.

GCTTS Note: Dr. White is one of the foremost reptile veterinarians in the greater Houston area and also has extensive personal experience with chelonians. He is at Briarcrest Veterinary Clinic, 1492 Wilcrest, Houston, TX 77042. Phone 713-789-8320.

Gulf Coast Turtle and Tortoise Society

http://www.gctts.org/WS/WS.php/Public/TurtleHibernation

[Oldturtle72]

To my knowledge, ducks, swans and geese are not reptile or fish eaters. Herons, such as the Great Blue and egrets, hawks, crows, jays, gulls would all enjoy a tasty baby turtle.
You must know that there are hatchling RESs that are born outside of their natural southern range, even as far north as Canada. Those little guys would have to hibernate in order to survive. In the turtle trade, adult females are made to lay eggs every year that they are capable and alive. Those female babies that are not sold will be made, as adults to lay eggs and their babies and so on and so on until the instinct to survive in the wild is almost bred out. You've seen a dog scratch at a rug, turn around a few times and then settle down? That's what their wild brethren do to make a sleeping bed. My point is, that some turtles, born in captivity, will retain the instinct to hibernate and will do so whether a ' born-that-year' turtle(hatchling) or a adult.
In an earlier post of mine, I told of a mature Western Painted Turtle that I bought because I was told she was a wild caught turtle and I had other turtles in my pond that hibernated beautifully. On a fairly warm day, in the middle of winter, I saw her up swimming around. I misunderstood her actions and thought she had just come up for a breath as some of my other turts did from time to time. The next day, when I looked out on the pond, there she was. I went out to see what was going on and realised that, although she had tried at first, she was just unable to complete a hibernation period. By that time, her legs were so cold and who knew what else in her body was affected, that even when I brought her in to slowly thaw, she didn't survive. I've kept my RESs in the house in 'winter quarters' while my EPTs were nicely hibernating. I just wouldn't take the chance that they might be able to sleep away the winter. I was saddened by the death of that lovely turtle and vowed that I wouldn't ever try to hibernate a captive bred turtle. George

[Myrtle]

Thanks for the post replies. I guess my turtle would not make it in the pond throughout the winter then.