Habitat - Indoor :: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

Turtle tank setups and other indoor configurations.

Post Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:24 pm   Trouble with Water & Air Temps

She’s not a slider but an African Sideneck but I’ve been breaking my back trying to get her temperatures correct. I have a 40 gallon tank and it seems like no matter what I do if I get her basking temp around 90 where it should be her water temp climbs above 80. But if I let the water cool her basking temp falls to the mid 80s. And bar from cooking myself with a space heater in my bedroom, I can’t figure out what to do. She’s still healthy and active but she’s only been home for about a week.

My issues are here: the bulbs I use either don’t put off enough heat or the combo puts off so much it heats the water. I’ve tried several different bulb types and combos but the result is always the same. My bedroom is the only place I can keep the tank as I share a home with three other people.
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:46 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

What kind of thermometer are you using? I would first make sure that you are getting accurate results. Also, where is the basking area/basking lamp in the tank? You might need to reposition both. Lastly, I think your turtle basking is more important than having the basking temp at exactly 90.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:00 am   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

steve wrote:What kind of thermometer are you using? I would first make sure that you are getting accurate results. Also, where is the basking area/basking lamp in the tank? You might need to reposition both. Lastly, I think your turtle basking is more important than having the basking temp at exactly 90.

Thanks for responding!

I have four different thermometers placed around the tank, all are different types. One is digital and regulates the lamps if it gets too hot and is in the back left where her basking area is, two are the kinds you stick on the tank which are positioned on the front left, the other on the far right side, and then the water thermometer which is also on the right. The temperature usually varies between 4 to 6 degrees on each side depending on if there is airflow one my room(door or window open).

My current theory is that the lamps are just too far away from the basking are itself since the tank is so y’all, so I’ve removed the screen over the basking area and lowered the lamp further down. This concerns me however because I have a cat. But raising the basking area and water levels isn’t really an option for me as it’s hard to get anything high enough and she’s too clumsy to use turtle docks, we’ve tried and she gives up. Plus I have to buy water from the store for the tank as the tap water in my area is extremely high in ammonia. But her water is a good 6-7 inches deep which is enough where when she stands on her hind legs she can float up to get air.

Lastly today she didn’t bask but it’s also the first day in the 40 gallon tank, she was only in a 20 before, and she spent the day exploring and being very active so I wasn’t too concerned about it.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:05 am   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

What's the distance of the lamp and basking area? What kind of bulb are you using? Do you have a picture of the setup? Can you tell me more about the digital one? And what do you normally do for drinking water?
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:18 am   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

steve wrote:What's the distance of the lamp and basking area? What kind of bulb are you using? Do you have a picture of the setup? Can you tell me more about the digital one? And what do you normally do for drinking water?


The lamp was about 10in before, it’s probably closer to 7 now. I’m waiting to see how well it heats up since the night lamp did pretty well last night. The bulb itself is a sparkzoo mercury vapor bulb 100W. I used a black bulb 75W last night and there is a ceramic 100W that is usually constantly running on the other side. That one is about 12in from the water but does better with maintaining temps rather than raising them.

The digital thermometer/regulator is an Ink Bird ITC-306C. Typically I use my tap water for drinking because I don’t care, I’ve been drinking it my whole life. But I wouldn’t use it on her.

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:03 am   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

You would have much better control with a small submersible "thermostat" controlled heat than with bulbs and ceramic emitter for the water. Not one of those cheap pre-set type heaters.

Also raising basking area out the water more ( 1/2" to 1" ) will offer more stable temp on it. It would be able to hold heat better than being deep in the water , turtles are great climbers . Have another flat rock to make it a little higher. If need to adjust ramp to help get on a higher basking area.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:16 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

litefoot wrote:You would have much better control with a small submersible "thermostat" controlled heat than with bulbs and ceramic emitter for the water. Not one of those cheap pre-set type heaters.

Also raising basking area out the water more ( 1/2" to 1" ) will offer more stable temp on it. It would be able to hold heat better than being deep in the water , turtles are great climbers . Have another flat rock to make it a little higher. If need to adjust ramp to help get on a higher basking area.


Thank you. I do have a submersible heater that adjusts, it’s just hard to see in the photo, it does great. The ceramic heater is for the ambient temp on the far side of the tank. Her basking area has been getting up to 86 today since I lowered the lamp and she seems pretty happy and the water temp has increased but is currently still under 80. I would like the basking area to raise at least a few more degrees so I may try an additional rock like you suggested.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:24 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

Good on the water heater too. Requirement's for an African side neck is close to a sliders needs so look at top header links on this page may help , both are aquatic turtles.

The only thing that concerns me is the basking area is small. If you Google deeper having a larger area allows the turtle to decide what amount of UVB and UVA/heat it wants and or needs at a particular time. Times turtles just want to dry off too. That’s why I offer a dry dock with no light’s for my Piggley when he want that. Not full out all the time in a small basking area. It’s hard to do in glass tanks with there 12” or 18” widths. Reason I use stock tanks. Much wider and can offer more turtle things.
Also lowed to the 7” reduces the area of usable UVB ray. Higher gives more coverage area of UVB rays depending on brands. That’s pretty bright that low with a 100 watt mercury vapor on a turtles eyes in a 40 gallon. Does your turtle close his nictitating lid when basking or all three eye lids ? Yes sparkzoo says minimum range is 7” but the total range they offer is for reptiles in general. 7” is more for an iquana than a aquatic turtle. Aquatic turtles in my decades for my turtles do best with 50-100 micro watts (uW/cm² of UVB). Do you have a UVB meter to know what the bulb is “actually” producing ? I found Mega Rays do the best , using their coupon I found Mega Rays produce the best usable UVB rays for 18 months for about $7 more. My test sparkzoo only produced usable UVB rays if lucky 8 months. And those CFL type only 4-6 months. I use an 100watt Mega Ray at 16” in a 150 stock tank with three feet of dock. It covers 80% of basking area with usable UVB rays and no supplemental heat using natural cork deck. Material matters too on holding heat some material like natural cork are better than others. You don’t need UVB ray to cover the water too because they do not penetrate water , maybe an 1” at most. Also never sit on a glass lid , don't penetrate glass either. All the light you see is not all UVB rays only an area the special coating on the special quartz glass. Some manufactures that’s a small area and the lower you put it smaller yet. It takes patience but you will get it for your pet/friend/child.

Sometimes in 20* winter's I add supplemental heat but instead of trying all kind of heat bulbs I use a dimmer rated for size bulb I'm using . Then I can adjust one degree at a time to get what I'm look for.

PS : my basking temps with my setup gives Piggley a varying range from 82* to 91* at that 16" distance. Then the drydock which will be room temp.
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:33 am   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

Be careful if the tank edges are not supported under that table. That is where a majority of the weight is, and basically it needs to be supported all around the rims. That tank half full already weighs over 175 pounds.

How many watts is the heater? How old is your turtle?
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:26 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

My water heater is 100W and I have it set to cut off at 74. So far this has helped keep her water temps down below 80degrees, albeit only by a degree or two during the day. At night it drops to 75 where it should be.

Also the table edges are supported, my dad made it and checked to be sure it would hold the tank before we put it on there

As for Litefoot, interesting about the amount of UVB + distance, I didn’t know that. It would still bring me to the issue of the area not getting remotely warm enough. Would the bulb you suggest but off a better amount of heat from the further distances? Bumi typically shifts between opening a closing her eyes during basking, I had no idea about them having three eyelids so I’m not sure what I should be looking for.
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:56 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

Yes , your water temp is ok for a young adult. Recommended by reputable site’s is 75*-80* the 80* for babies 1 year and under for the rapid the growing and minimum of 75* for adults. Basking temp at least 10* above water temp to a max in the range of 90* then 92* for some species.

Hers a video about UVB readings : https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=UV ... ORM=VRDGAR

Here’s a link to Mega Rays , if you go with one use there coupon to save money. Also for good info click on all articles and videos they have : https://www.reptileuv.com/shop/index.ph ... 7542eba405

UVB bulbs came a long way , first just CFL’s with little to "no" heat then over some years to mercury vapor. That's why supplemental heat is needed for some types of UVB bulbs. Must learn all you can , some even say full spectrum but don’t offer the range of full spectrum or the amount of micro watts (uW/cm²) their bulb produce. A reputable company will for a maximum and minimum distances because each reptile has there own requirements on UVB rays ( uW/cm²) . What some call reading’s are no-were usable UVB rays for a aquatic turtle. They just state reptile bulb , beware of them. Improper light can hurt/burn a turtles eyes. That’s why I asked about which eye lid’s are open or closed when under your light. The upper can close all the way down , lower can go all the way up and then under both of them a clear ish nictitating membrane. They use that when in dirty water or very bright light. You can just make out the pupil when nictitating closed , almost looks like it has a cataract. When all open eye looks nice and clear and bright looking. Nature is wonderful !

Then to really get into UVB light there’s the “Ferguson Zone” , that is great to use to but requires a special meter. There are many light meters . Would cost way too much to make one meter to do all readings and then no one would buy them.
Here’s a link to a good site : https://www.solarmeter.com/
Watch this for Ferguson Zone : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklUCpqsBp0

I just use a 6.2 UVB meter all your need unless you have a deep pockets to get others too. With the 6.2 all I want is to know when UVB ray's get too low. I get 18 months of usable UVB rays for a Mega Ray. You would have to buy a couple to several other brands for that life span , making the Mega Rays cheaper over all.

And yes I recommend Mega Rays , the heat it put out is usable. Remember to have a good UVB bulb last it must have a little lower heat to it. The Reptile UV site explains that more. If I go to the mimium distance my basking dock get's up to 97* so my distance is 16" and get a 91* reading using a "IR" type thermometer , what I and Piggley want.
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:26 pm   Re: Trouble with Water & Air Temps

You’ve been very informative, thank you. I will try what you have suggested next paycheck and see if they help.
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