Feeding and Nutrition :: Feeding Vitamins/Healthy Commercial Foods

[Nicci Lu]

Hey all! This is my first post here. I'm probably going to be asking a lot of stupid questions in the future. I keep freshwater fish but have never had any sort of reptile. Two days ago my husband came home with (surprise!) two RES- one male one female, both about 5-6 inches long. So, I've been taking a crash course on RES care. Luckily, my fish tanks help since I know about water care, and I have plenty of frogbit, anacharis and baby ramshorn snails (which they adore, especially the frogbit!)

My first question is about vitamin supplements. I've been looking into them, and it seems that reptile vitamins are made to be dusted on food. If food is placed in the water for RES, then doesn't the powder come off the food before they eat it? Are there special vitamins made for aquatic turtles?

Secondly, I'm curious about commercially prepared foods. I've looked into most of the brands that are most commonly recommended, like ReptoMin and Mazuri. With the exception of Omega One and Zilly (?), all these foods seem to be poor quality. None but the Omega One list a specific fish/seafood meal as their first ingredient and they have high amounts of corn/wheat/soybean fillers. When I look for fish food, these are the first things I look at. So, I'm curious. Why is Mazuri (as an example) considered so good when it's first ingredient is corn? What else do these foods have that are nutritionally important to RES?

I ended up getting Repashy's Savory Stew, which I have never seen mentioned on RES forums or care sheets. Repashy is my staple fish food, so that's the brand I went with for my turtles. Can y'all tell me if this is a good staple for my pair?

Our Meal Replacement Gel for Meat Loving Omnivorous Species of Reptiles and Amphibians. Great for Turtles, Skinks, Tegus, Bearded Dragons and others.

INGREDIENTS: Whole Krill Meal, Alfalfa Leaf Meal, Whole Squid Meal, Stabilized Rice Bran, Whole Sardine Meal, Dried Brewers Yeast, Spirulina Algae, Chlorella Algae, Seaweed Flour, Dried Kelp,　 Konjac, Carob Bean Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Potassium Citrate, Calcium Propionate, Schizochytrium Algae, Phaffia Rhodozyma Yeast, Paprika Extract, Calendula Flower Powder, Marigold Flower Extract, Rose Hips Powder, Turmeric Root Powder, Malic Acid, Sodium Chloride, Canthaxanthin, Potassium Sorbate, Magnesium Gluconate, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid Phosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement).

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein min. 40%, Crude Fat min. 6%, Crude Fat max. 8%, Crude Fiber max. 8%, Moisture max. 8%, Ash max. 9%, Calcium min. 1.5%, Calcium max. 2%, Phosphorus min. 0.75%.

I was thinking about mixing it with their Super Green (so it would all be in the same cube together), which is an algae based vegan formula for fish, to cut back a bit on the protein and add more greens. This is the ingredient list for the Super Green:
INGREDIENTS: Chlorella Algae, Spirulina Algae, Pea Protein Isolate, Germinated Brown Rice Protein Concentrate, Alfalfa Leaf Powder, Stabalized Rice Bran, Dandilion Powder, Dried Brewers Yeast, Flax Seed Meal, Schizochytrium Algae, Chondrus Algae, Konjac, Carob Bean Gum, Ascophyllum Algae, Potassium Citrate, Calcium Propionate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Phaffia rhodozyma yeast, Paprika Extract, Calendula Flower Powder, Marigold Flower Extract, Rose Hips Powder, Turmeric Root Powder, Malic Acid, Sodium Chloride, Canthaxanthin, Potassium Sorbate, Magnesium Gluconate, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement).

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein min. 35%, Crude Fat min. 6%, Crude Fiber max. 8%, Moisture max. 8%, Ash max. 9%, Calcium min. 1.5%, Phosphorus min. 0.75%.


Does this sound like a healthy staple?

[ljapa]

First of all, congrats on the new addition!

I'm less than a year into turtle care, with no previous aquarium experience, so take my thoughts with a grain or two of salt.

For pelleted turtle food, I too use Omega One for the same reasons you mentioned. My son's turtle has been fine on it. She's about 3.5", so she's a late juvenile. I also feed some of the tertra baby pellets because I still have some left.

As to reptile dusting, I think you'll find the primary benefit there is calcium. Combine that with UVB to create vitamin D3, and you get bone growth. While turtle pellets have calcium, many here also use cuttlebone, like you'd buy for a bird. Remove the hard backing and offer it.

I really think for the vegan diet, you may want to use fresh greens. Even that Repashy Super Green has a protein content of 35%, which is as high as some of the pellets.

In the wild, a young RES is going to have a diet primarily of live prey which is going to be high in protein. As they mature, that diet shifts to a much larger plant intake, with the occasional live prey. Plants aren't 35% protein. If you over feed, there is a health risk. (Search for turtle pyramiding.).

You're doing the right thing by skeptically reading feeding recommendations and recommended brands. But, I think you may be overlooking the benefit of lower protein raw vegetables combined with high quality prepared food.

[steve]

For dusting, you can mix it with your own custom pellet or moisten the pellet and let the power dry on it. Additional calcium/vitamins are usually not necessary with a good/varied diet.

[Nicci Lu]

Thanks for the input!

@Steve- So, basically I should not worry about the vitamins and just concentrate on providing a balanced diet? Would you say the two most important vitamin/minerals to ensure they get are vit A and calcium? The calcium/phosphorus ratio in the commercial food I plan on using- "Calcium min. 1.5%, Calcium max. 2%, Phosphorus min. 0.75%"- does that look right?

@ljapa- I will have to get some cuttlebone. Do you know, is there any difference between the one they sell in the reptile section and what's for sale in the bird section? I didn't explain myself very well with the Super Green. The Repashy foods come in a powder that you add boiling water to- this then becomes a gel food. What I was going to do was mix the two powders together, maybe a 2:1 savory stew/super green ratio, and then add water. So, essentially, I will have created a new food. I was thinking that the 40% protein in the savory stew seemed a tad high, so mixing it with super green would bring that percentage down a notch and add in more greens to their staple. But, I definitely don't plan on substituting the super green for actual plants/veggies. My pair love them way too much- I'm still amazed at how fast they utterly demolished the frogbit I put in their tank!

[ljapa]

The only difference in the reptile cuttlebone and bird cuttlebone is the price. The reptile stuff usually costs more, but is the same thing. Avoid the flavored ones.

[steve]

ljapa is correct.

You'd want to have more calcium than phosphorus, so he might need more than just the commercial food.

[Nicci Lu]

Thanks! They adore the Repashy, and I got them some cuttlebone to chew on. So far, the only leafy things I can get them to eat are my aquatic plants- I think if they had their druthers, my fish tanks would be bare of plants in two hours, lol. Collard greens were a big fail, but I'm working on it.

[ataraxiamb]

My turt eats anarchis like it's going out of style. But the closer pet stores don't carry it, so he eats red leaf lettuce most of the time. I think your turtles will be fine with just the aquatic plants if they don't like other greens. I know that if I stuck both anarchis and red leaf lettuce in the tank, Bill would ignore the lettuce.

[Nicci Lu]

I wouldn't mind just feeding them my aquatic plants- except that they eat them far quicker than I can grow them, lol. One week for the frogbit to grow to cover the surface of my tanks- 5 minutes for the turts to demolish them. I found that they like romaine, so now I've got a backup leaf.

[steve]

Maybe keep a separate tank/container, just for growing plants?

[adam14]

Thanks for the post i was looking for some infos aswell^^