Other Turtle Discussion :: Albino Red Ear Slider Bloodlines

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

Hi , I am new to these forums and just returned to the United States from England where I lived for the past 8 years. Over my life, I have owned many turtles, snakes and alligators however I wanted to get back into just turtle morphs not necessary as a big breeder by any means in which I used to enjoy as well but more or less as a hobbyist however breeding the few I have is in the future. In my retirement years I have found that turtles as pets are a great for stress relief, just watching them in their set ups for a couple hours a day has proved this to me at least . The morphs has sparked my attention in general being very unique overall however a lifetime friend over the past twenty years has told me a bit of concern with all the money that I put out so far on my albnos and hybinos.

It was told to me that there is three different at least bloodlines and for what ever reason from other breeders that they are incompatible genetics and when crossing the different bloodlines, the offspring results into double hets. I have no problem with hets in general and I agree that they are needed to make genetic gene pools stronger but I was also concerned about my turtles being compatible with the money that was put out.

I looked online for these three bloodlines to study these gene pools a bit only to come up with nothing and or names of the original bloodline breeders. I was informed that all of my turtles are from the " Allison" bloodline. Can anyone provide me who are these three ORIGINAL bloodline turtle breeders are and is there any other genetic issues that I need to be aware of? I would like compatible 100 % hets as well if any to extend out of inbreeding of course as well.

I will get pics up of my turtles soon on this forum.

Thank you for your help in educating in the matter.

[djronnieg]

My Red-eared slider has some royal genes. This I know because she's a princess and is spoiled as such.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

My Red-eared slider has some royal genes. This I know because she's a princess and is spoiled as such.

lolol . I do like your response as you feel the same way about your red ear as I do as mine. I like to see happy pet owners who spoil their pets with compassion .

[steve]

This is the first I've heard about the bloodlines, and it's pretty cool that you're trying to determine what they are. I think the only place that would probably discuss about such things would be on kingsnake.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

This is the first I've heard about the bloodlines, and it's pretty cool that you're trying to determine what they are. I think the only place that would probably discuss about such things would be on kingsnake.

Thank You for responding Steve and it is nice to meet you online with you being the Admin. I found it interesting as well yet concerned with later breeding of my Albinos, hybinos (I will be getting a few of these) and carmel pinks here soon, I was a bit worried when I heard this about the genetic strains which is understandable with paying several thousand dollars already on set ups and the turles I now have.

I would of been highly disappointed with producing only hets after years of raising. I am planning on buying 100 percent hets but I do not want to produce my own therefor saving years.

Steve if you go to the link I am providing here from " turtle source . com " and look to the right hand side of the page in the column that reads " Order Here, scroll down to " 10 : " , you will read " 10: We have a few double Het Albino Red Eared Sliders: These are green turtles with both parents albino - so they are compatible with both albino blood lines, hatched at 86 degrees to produce females - perfect to breed with albino males from either albino blood line.
Shipping Size: SMALL Pricing: 1 or more: $295.00/ea.
Availability: Available Now "

With this being a respected breeder and in this section reading " These are green turtles with both parents albino - so they are compatible with both albino blood lines, " This has confirmed to me that there is two to three Original bloodlines. This is the purpose of asking this question on the thread.

Here is the link I referred to below:

http://www.theturtlesource.com/i.asp?id=100200319

Thank you for your response and I will check Kingsnake as well.

[steve]

Very fascinating, though this probably beyond what most of the people here research. You probably need to interact with the breeders, but I'm not sure how you can sure of their bloodlines.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

Very fascinating, though this probably beyond what most of the people here research. You probably need to interact with the breeders, but I'm not sure how you can sure of their bloodlines.

Yes....Sounds like the best idea like you pointed out and I will start interacting with the breeders starting with turtle source . com (then off to kingsnake) since the site mentions this. I would love some normal red ear sliders but unfortunately it is illegal now to have normal Red Ear Sliders here and only legal to have morphs. But like many people on here from the photos I seen, the members turtles are outstanding turtles with very nice patterns and colors. Any normal red ear owned here had to be one that was grandfathered in prior to the law.

[steve]

There are federal laws that have not been strictly enforced, has that changed down in FL?

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

There are federal laws that have not been strictly enforced, has that changed down in FL?

No new laws have changed on the red ear sliders here. The normals are still banned from sales, new ownership of normal's coming in and breeding the normal red ear sliders. What the State of florida does not get that I seen recently is more and more people are realizing these laws on the normal red ear sliders, that they fear on getting caught, people are still releasing them into the wild or giving them even babies to other people who do not care about the laws in Florida. I actually seen this a lot and recently offered 6 normal red ears from babies to the adults recently however I will not break any laws.

I heard from my lifetime friend that informed me on the three bloodlines of the albinos, that there is now a special permit and he said it is free to keep normal red ear sliders. I have not seen or heard any people that has this permit though and it is something to be researched of course. I am sure the permit will also have conditions if so on not breeding or releasing them still. I hope that what my friend stated is true for people who just want them as pets and nothing more. The State law in my opinion in selected areas have been beneficial in regards to Florida native species interacting with red ear sliders in the wild however with the fearing of ownership on keeping normal red ear sliders , has grown on releasing them again in the wild, illegal ownership with just giving them away to anyone and everyone and yes I seen on craigslist that people are still out there in general selling the normals to local residents in which many do not know the laws yet the seller most likely does. I do not know of any new FEDERAL laws to be effect in Florida but again some may have changed in STATE laws such as this reported permit.

[steve]

Sorry, I was referring to the state laws. Since it's been a few years, I was wondering if it had any real effect on the situation. It's real unfortunate that people are releasing them. Seems like a failure to communicate on both sides is creating the opposite situation of what everyone wants.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

Sorry, I was referring to the state laws. Since it's been a few years, I was wondering if it had any real effect on the situation. It's real unfortunate that people are releasing them. Seems like a failure to communicate on both sides is creating the opposite situation of what everyone wants.

Yes I agree with you one everything. The State Laws really has not made to much of a difference. The State went around canals and lakes to capture the red ear sliders only to euthanize the turtles. This cut down the population drastically back then only to put fear into people on arrest and fines to have more people release the red ears into the wild. Then you have those still buying them illegally here and selling off the babies. You also have those people who move here from other legal states with them. It is a no win battle for the State Government on this issue really.

Yes failure to communicate is the problem on both sides , you are right. All I know is I am staying legal as I do not want any problems arising when I do start breeding and FWC has the right to inspect my collection at any given time.

[steve]

I don't know why they won't crack down on the major breeders. States want to introduce more laws restricting the sale and those huge farms want to go back and get rid of those federal laws.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

I don't know why they won't crack down on the major breeders. States want to introduce more laws restricting the sale and those huge farms want to go back and get rid of those federal laws.

That is very true, The big breeders here still produce normal's for the market. This is against the Florida laws entirely. Cracking down on there own state statutes should be considered being that the banned private owners from breeding and selling them. Like the old story goes What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Fair is fair. These breeders advertise within Florida lines and produce the offspring but if you notice they advertise to sell to residents or pet shops outside the State of Florida only. I used to sell reptiles on the side and I have many wholesalers willing to sell baby red ears sliders as low as 75 cents up to a 1.50 each even today. Just because the laws are here, the underground market still remains . It is truly a endless battle for the government officials of Florida to battle.

Though anyone can get them easy here, it just takes one person mad at the other who owns and does not have a permit, to call the State resulting in arrest and fines. With as many people that I interact with daily, there is no way that I would do anything illegal. I am semi retired but for the most part, fully retired and do hold a very relaxing position where all my expenses are provided by the company. I do not pay rent, electric, cable, internet , phone, cell phone or gas for my vehicles or anything and I make a decent salary as a property manager for a large residential community. My office is on property as well so there is no commute. I have a display tank being set up in my office and plan to put a few turtles in there. But again I will be legal with seeing and meeting guest and residents alike daily.

[Tampa Bay Turtle Fan]

Just a update on some of the three original Albino Red Ear Slider Morphs out there that are incompatible with each other. For sure the TWO Original bloodlines that I have been able to determine were from pioneer reptile breeders Don Hamper and Clive Longden however I am still researching who this " Allison " bloodline is if anyone can find the answer. What I know of Don Hamper and Clive Longden . I have met Don Harper personally many many times during boa conventions in which this was also his prize reptile to breed back in the older days and I met him through one of my closest and dearest friends Joe Terry who produced the first ever Silver back and Orange Crush Bolivian Boas who lived locally to me when I worked for Dr. Sudo in Miami as well as Jamie Quick (boa breeder) from Clearwater Florida originally who he and I used to hang out as older teens growing up when I was visiting my grandparents in the St. Petersburg / Clearwater area and I was shocked to read reports of his reputation on being one of the leading boa breeders and now wolf breeders around the whole United States. From my understanding, Don never lived in Florida however in Ohio, Indiana and the latest was in Kentucky with his wife Robby So I ONLY assume that this bloodline stemmed from his efforts in the Mid West of the United States . Based on Don's Albino line, I could only assume that this " Allison bloodline" did not stem off from Dons line do to the long time locality where Don was most of his life.

What I know of Clive Longden on the other hand, I never once met him personally however he was one of the first to purchase one of those beautiful leucistic Alligator babies found by the Louisville fisherman in the back country of the Louisiana marshes in August of 1987 . Clive had owned and I still believe owns the Jungle Island tourist attraction in Miami where his leucistic Alligator remains today and it is a full sized adult now and totally gorgeous animal that I seen in person and taken photos of. Ironically, I never met this icon legend coming from my old stomping grounds sort of speak however. I never known that he produced the other genetic strains of the Albino Red Ear Sliders that broke a lot of hearts and goals of breeders world wide with being incompatible with Don Hamper albino strains. Mr. Longden, still lives in upper state (Jacksonville )Florida and had the business in Miami Florida. My thinking is that my albinos came from Clive Longdens original strain being a South Florida Boy originally and sold to this " Allison" breeder in which I still do not know this persons full name but I do know, he is a resident of Florida for a long number of years . Who Is he, I have no idea but I am dedicated to finding out so I can talk to him a bit it person. If anyone's knows this " Allison" who was reported to have his own strain which is doubtful according to reports of only the two original strains out there, I indeed would like to know. As far as my current studies, there was only the two strains mentioned however if this Allison did stem his albinos off one of the two, he very well could of bred the albino to a normal, produced hets and bred them back which only resulted in out breeding for a stronger strain but in no way shape or form classifies it as his own strain. If someone can prove me wrong, I am open ears to who this Allison is and interested in the alleged strain that is reported to be his own. If he does have his own strain, I would love to hear about it.