Urgent Care :: anyone else tried supplements?

[goatfarmer123]

How big is your turtle? two inches
How long have you had it? a year

What is the water temperature? 78
Are you using a water heater? no
How much water is in there? 10 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? yes

What is the basking temperature? 90
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? plastic
Is there a UVB light? yes

What have you been trying to feed it? pellets and supplements
When was the last time your turtle ate? this afternoon

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 12 gallons
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? no

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? sits at the bottom with eyes closed not moving

I gave him a liquid calcium supplement for the first time today, and followed the directions, or i think i did. however he is not ok, and there are no vets open tonight, is there anything i can do if i overdosed him or he wasn't supposed to have it? the packaging said for aquatic turtles and
he just isn't moving. i took him out of the tank and put him in his travel tank with fresh water in case there was something wrong with his tank... i tested for ammonia, ph, nitrates, everything and the ammonia was high, but i just changed that water yesterday so thats normal but the pH was nearly 8. i know thats really high so that's why i moved him. but he still is motionless with swelled and closed eyes. if someone knows anything, please help, he has never been sick like this before. i think i might lose him, he's never been sick before and i don't know what to do for him.

[industrial_girl_2000]

A couple of questions: do you have a thermometer to check the water temp & basking temp? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but since you don't have a water heater, I just wanted to make sure that you weren't assuming that the air temp going to be the same as the water temp so I just had to ask (please humor me on this point. Thanks!).

FYI: technically, you won't need to give your turtle liquid calcium supplements. It is possible that his tummy is upset. I know many folks here use cuttlebone (their turtles like to snack on it) and that's fine because it is up to the turtle to pick how much he wants to eat. Personally, I have used the "water neutralizer" calcium blocks for 17 yrs with Sheba with a lot of success. Her main food pellets are tetra reptomin foodsticks, which are also enriched with calcium. Her shell is hard as a rock so I just wanted to tell you that there are other options besides the liquid stuff.

How often do you do a complete water change? If it is only a 12 gal tank, it would be easy to chg the water at least once every 3 weeks (not much work for you since it is a small tank). That helps control the ammonia buildup, etc.

Do you feed him in the tank? Is the tankwater constantly cloudy? Does he have any other symptoms (opening his mouth a lot to breathe, etc.?)?

Sorry if it is a lot of questions, but I am just trying to help get to the root of the problem.

[goatfarmer123]

i do have a thermometer in the water, it floats around in the water. thanks for covering everything, though, its not a dumb question at all!
I change the water at least every month, i have a good filter but i do occasionally have problems with green algae. there is a pet store going out of business by my house and the liquid was on clearance... i thought "what could it hurt" and apparently the answer is "a lot." I usually give him cuttle bone too.
i feed him pellets in the tank, and i've given his rosy reds before too. not often though. the tankwater is clear, the only problems i've had is with the algae but as soon as i see any on the rocks a change the water and scrub everything out with diluted vinegar. he hasn't had any other symptoms, this was a really quick onset sickness. i first noticed that he was rubbing his eyes and floating a lot more than swimming. he is usually really active. then he started sitting on the bottom with his eyes closed and so i moved him out of the tank and he is just sitting on the bottom, not even freaking out that he is in the travel tank. he is at least reacting to me now though, which is an improvement.

[steve]

Did this start happening right after you gave him the supplements? What brand was it?

[goatfarmer123]

t-rex... it was about 4 hours after i gave it too him. he is acting better now though! i changed the entire tank and the filter sponges and media just in case. he is opening his eyes.

[goatfarmer123]

i think he is not going to kick the bucket real soon. he is moving around a bit more and though his eyes are still closed most of the time, i can get him to open them. they don't look red, just puffy. i didn't try feeding him any more but i'll be back on immediately if i can't get him to eat tomorrow. its the scariest feeling when you don't feel like you can't do anything to help... poor turtle, that must have been one heck of a tummy ache.

[SpotsMama]

I'm really glad he's coming around. It's a real shame that he got sick - when you were just trying to be helpful!

[industrial_girl_2000]

i think he is not going to kick the bucket real soon. he is moving around a bit more and though his eyes are still closed most of the time, i can get him to open them. they don't look red, just puffy. i didn't try feeding him any more but i'll be back on immediately if i can't get him to eat tomorrow. its the scariest feeling when you don't feel like you can't do anything to help... poor turtle, that must have been one heck of a tummy ache.

Do you ever feed him any veggies? Just curious, because if he does eat veggies, now would be the time to give him some veggies to help soothe the tummy. I would give him something green (like romaine, kale, or collard), or a bit of squishy banana (bananas are known to help soothe a tummy ache or nausea).

Glad to hear he his coming around! Keep us posted.

[marisa]

Just curious, but what kind of filter are you using? If you've got only 10 gallons of water in the tank, a weekly or at least week and a half change and cleaning would be far healthier for him. The smaller the tank and the less water, the more frequently it should be changed and cleaned. Bacteria (not the beneficial kind) can accumulate quickly in smaller tanks with less water. I used an Aquaclear50 (for 50-gallon fish tanks) in a 10-gallon tank and still found fairly frequent water changes and cleaning to be necessary.

Were you giving the supplement before the eyes were swollen or in response to the eyes being swollen?

Reptomin contains some calcium, but not all that much. Reptomin Baby contains a bit more.

[goatfarmer123]

i do feed him veggies, but not quite as often as i probably should. i'll try the banana too, anything that would help him feel better! he ate his pellets today like normal and begged like he was starving, so he is eating and basking normally. he doesn't seem quite as active but that is understandable at this point. his eyes look better, now just kinda wrinkly... like they were swollen but are going down but the skin is still stretched out. I have been putting zoo med drops on them every other day.
I am using a turtle clean 318 filter, it is rated for 30 gallon tanks and the water looks very clear and it doesn't smell bad. I need to get a bigger tank but the landlord of my current house requires separate insurance for any tank over 10 gallons (we don't tell him i've got a 12 gallon) i guess in case it breaks the water damage would be pretty bad. Hopefully I'm getting an apartment with a friend from work in May!
I gave him the supplement just as a supplement... he didn't look sick at all and his eyes were fine. I am a little concerned about one of his scutes... it seems to be lower than the others... like a reverse pyramid. it isn't that noticable, like you couldn't tell in a picture, but i can feel it in comparison to his adjacent scutes. I bought the supplement on clearance at a pet store going out of business and decided to try it because of that thing on his shell.
He is currently eating reptomin baby. i plan to start moving him into a different bowl to feed him, maybe that will help his water quality a bit, i'm sure anything helps.
thanks so much for your help, everyone. i was very scared and felt like the worst parent in the world. he has never been sick on me before, and it was really really really sad! i do think he is almost well though, and i will not make this mistake again!! poor green baby.

[marisa]

It would be good not to make the banana a frequent part of the diet.

Perhaps he somehow put a little dent in the area you're concerned about?

[goatfarmer123]

that is also possible. he likes to canoodle around in the rocks at the bottom of his tank. they are about twice his size (river rocks- smooth and round) but he likes to swim against them and move them around what little he can. it is possible he knocked his shell, but wouldn't that point to his shell being weak? it feels hard to me, not rock hard, but he is still very little. I know they tend to be slightly more pliable as hatchlings, and his shell isn't going to fit an exact picture of what every turtle should look like, i just don't want to be caught off guard!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[industrial_girl_2000]

It would be good not to make the banana a frequent part of the diet.

Marisa is right on this point. Bananas contain a lot of potassium which isn't the greatest thing for turts. Once or twice won't hurt to soothe a sore tummy, just don't do it constantly.

FYI: Bananas are a great anti-nausea remedy for humans which is why I even suggested it for an upset turt tummy.....it works well if you are nervous about flying....eat one just before getting on a plane. It's one of my many "natural cures" since I don't like to take any kinds of pills....

[marisa]

Actually...it wasn't the potassium content I was concerned about. It's the calcium/phosphorus ratio, which is very poor in bananas.