Urgent Care :: New female put in same tank as male

[despain_h]

How big is your turtle? Female about 4 inches; Male a little less

How long have you had it? Female one day; Male 8 months

What is the water temperature? 75 degrees
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? about 40 to 45 gallons (big fish breeder tank)
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? canister filter

What is the basking temperature? under light
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? don't know, it floats and is attached to talk with suction cups
Is there a UVB light? yes

When was the last time your turtle ate? this morning

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 55 gallons or so
Is the tank near a window? across room
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? male biting female

I purchased a female RES yesterday from the local pet store. When I put her in the tank, the male ignored her for a few hours. Then he started following her around and trying to bite her head. There was not blood or scratches or anthing (she is really light colored) so I left them be for the night. Today I called the pet store and talked to an employee who has 6 RES and has had them for years. She said that he is "practicing" his mating ritual. He does the whole tickle her neck while swimming backwards stuff. She said that he is practicing latching on to her neck or something like that. She also said that this is normal and that they have really tough skin and he won't hurt her. Tonight he doesn't seem to be quite as aggressive but he is doing the whole tickling thing a lot. Will he hurt her? Will this eventually stress her out? She looks annoyed. Will her ever stop?

I've been watching them closely for the past couple hours and he doesn't appear to be trying to bite her so much now as just paying very close attention to her and tickling her neck. You can tell she is kind of annoyed because she casually snaps at his claws when he tickles her for too long.

[grey goose]

What do you plan for the future?
*EDIT* I really meant why in the world would you introduce a female into a tank that is really too small for a male and a female???
The pet store guy just put your money into his register, do you honestly think he gives a hoot about whether your turts get along (or not)? I really try to be kind to new people on this forum but really, what are you thinking??

[despain_h]

Not sure what you mean... I don't want to breed them and I think she is too young anyway.

Based on everything I could find nothing said that there is commonly any problems. The tank seems plenty large enough until they get bigger. Its definately larger than a lot of people on here's tanks.

How big do you think it should be for the two of them at their current size? I have no problem keeping the tank clean. The canister filter works well and I do partial water changes a couple times a week. I'm very attentive to the water quality.

[grey goose]

She is too young now, what do you think is going to happen in the next few years? You need to at least get a bigger tank and more filtration.......

[grey goose]

You're not going to get away with keeping them in a 55gal. for very long, especially if the male is already biting the female......I've got three youngsters in a 90 gal, and I suspect I have one male and two females, (raised together) and I am already planning on some potential problems somewhere down the road......

[despain_h]

I know I will need to get a bigger habitat for them but for the moment I am just wondering if

(1) Is this all normal and will he not hurt her by doing this
(2) Will his messing with her stress her out too much

I will definately enlarge their habitat as they grow. [/u]

[grey goose]

Biting of any kind can be very harmful, tough skin or not (if you've ever been bit by a turt, then you know what I mean)....

Females can get stressed out enough to turn on the male and attack him!!!
If you had a larger tank, with places to hide or get away from each other, maybe they could get along eventually, but once they start biting, it's usually hopeless. They would have to be separated......permanently.

[missibsu]

A good rule of thumb to follow suggests that you have ten gallons of water for every straight inch length of shell. For two turtles at four inches, that's 80 gallons. If you start aggression problems now and don't take any measures to fix it, you will likely neve be able to keep them together. That being said, you may not be able to anyway.

[Turtle addict]

Noone is even mentioning the fact that a quarentine period should have been done, when you get a new one, deffinitly from a store they can come with fungus or bateria, or even respitory infections and pass it on to the one you had....they could both get sick and die! You should always seperate them for at least a month before putting them together. And I also agree that the tank is not big enough, more room less bugging. The male should calm down some, SHOULD but not for sure. He could stress the female and that would make her less able to fight infections, slow her eating. I would get them a bigger tank now and see if that helps him calm down, if not then they would have to be seperated.

[marisa]

Your male RES's interest in the female normal, but I find the skin on the neck to be surprisingly fragile on turtles like RES. A good bite will cause an injury. I doubt he's going to calm down to any degree. Even if she doesn't get bitten, the constant harassment will stress her out and just make life miserable for her.

Get a bigger tank and provide places for her to hide and get away from him. If that still doesn't work, they'll have to be separated to give her some peace.

[industrial_girl_2000]

I have to disagree with the pet store employee's evaluation of the neck biting situation. I have been thru the male + female in the same tank (many yrs ago) and the fighting between them was loud enough to wake the dead. The male CONSTANTLY was fluttering his nails in front of the female (ALL DAY, EVERY DAY). She would be patient with this behavior for a coupla hours, then she would all of a sudden LASH OUT at him (snap, SNAP, CHASE, BITE). Several times, she snapped several of his long nails off. One time she latched onto his tail, dislocating it so it was bent for months after that. Another time, he bit her on the hand & it broke skin & was bleeding. She also snapped one of his arms, dislocating it & I had to have a dog/cat vet come & look at it to make sure it wasn't broken. As she continued to reject his advances for mating, he continued to pester her constantly. She would try to bask, and he would grab onto her leg and YANK her down into the water.

THEN, let's talk about the eggs eggs EGGS she would lay. CONSTANTLY, 3 times per year. Sometimes she would lay an egg in the tank. Other times she would claw her way to try to get out of the tank. It was so loud (her trying to get out of the tank, climb climb climb, then SPLASH. Climb climb climb, SPLASH. For HOURS. I had to let her out in the living room, she buried her way under the bean bag & laid eggs (this is NOT the way to handle this but at the time there was no one there to tell me anything about how to make a nesting site!). Any eggs she laid in the tank turned the aquarium into an absolute SEWER, requiring a complete water change. One time I had to do 3 complete 55 gal water changes in ONE week because she kept trying to eat the eggs after she "laid" them in the water. I thought my back was going to fall off from hauling all that water.

The fighting between them got so bad that I had to let one of the turtles out to walk around the living room for 8 hours, then switch and let the other turtle walk around while the first turtle went back in the tank. They could NOT be in the tank at the same time during daylight. At night, I had to have both turtles in the tank, but I had to turn all the lights off before I did it so they didn't see each other. The SECOND I woke up in the morning, I had run in the room where the aquarium was & take one of them out before they saw each other & started fighting again.

The only way I solved this issue was that I gave away the male to a friend of mine. That way, my Sheba could be by herself. All the egg-laying ceased about a year after that. Thank goodness.

I hope you never have to find this all out for yourself & that my story will help you understand how difficult it can be to put a male & female together in one tank. FYI: at the time this was all going on, Sheba was about 6" and the male was 4". So they weren't much bigger than your turts are now. good luck.

[despain_h]

Thank you all for your help. I have a week to think about taking her back to the store. This morning I have been watching them and right now he watches her and follows her around. I'll decide what to do soon. Thanks again.