Urgent Care :: Strange behavior.

[DanM]

My one turtle, Frank, was floating lop-sided when I went in to get him and my other turtle to put them in their feeding tanks. I was startled by it, considering I've read this page about 100 times. He is "clicking" and opening his mouth how someone would if they were talking (only when he's in the water though, and it's not constant). He will float a bit lop-sided but then when I look in later, he'll be fine. He has some bubbles which don't appear to be mucus, and they aren't constant either. He seems to be eating fine (actually, I put him in today to feed him and he attacked his food instantly, the little pig)... Another thing he's doing is "heaving" a bit, if you know what I mean. seems to rock back and forth... Not sure if that's the best way to say it. Like a very slow jerking-forward motion.

When I get him out and put him on the table, he walks just fine. In fact I haven't noticed much that bothers me at ALL when he's on dry land.

I've separated the two of them, given him more heat, changed the water, etc etc. It's bothersome.

RI? Something else?

I can only think of two "physical" things that have ever happened to him. About a week ago, he somehow managed to get out of the feeding bowl I had him in (if you saw this thing, you'd be shocked too) and my girlfriend found him hiding under something on my dresser (which is where the bowl was). It was about a 4-5 inch drop, but he didn't show any signs of damage whatsoever. 2 days ago, when she was putting him into his feeding bowl, he "scampered" out of her hand into the water, but that was about a 1 inch drop into 2 inches of water.


One thing I should mention is that I've got pretty bad anxiety problems and tend to think the worst, plus I'm a bit of a hypochondriac at times. Maybe keep this in mind...


The info:::

How big is your turtle? - About 2 inches down the shell.
How long have you had it? - 3 months.

What is the water temperature? - 78 degrees
Are you using a water heater? - yes
How much water is in there? - about 3-4 inches deep
Are you using a water conditioner? - no
Are you using any filtration? - yes

What is the basking temperature? - if they are outside it's about 85 degrees, inside I have a light but I'm not sure what the temperature is. Maybe 80.
Is there a basking light? - a florescent 15 watt bulb attached to their tank
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yeah, a bunch of flat rocks.

What have you been trying to feed it? pellets, occasionally chicken, green lettuce
When was the last time your turtle ate? tonight

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? about 3' x 1.5' or so.
Is the tank near a window? across the room from sliding glass doors.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes, sometimes

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes.
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes.

[Tenodera]

Sounds like RI

[DanM]

Sort of figured as much... so sad.

[Tenodera]

If you can get him to the vet as soon as possible you can still save him!

[DanM]

Yeah, I'll see if I can get ahold of one tomorrow, which is doubtful because it's Sunday, and if not I definitely will on Monday. Thanks a lot

[octpusgirl8]

It definitely sounds like RI. He may have had it since you've had him. He needs to see a vet as soon as possible to get better, little turtles are pretty delicate. It's a good sign that he's eating though, it'll keep his strength up. You should separate him from the other turtle(s) to make it less stressful for him. About his housing, do you move the turtles between an indoor and outdoor enclosure regularly or seasonally? Do they have a heat source for the basking area indoors other than the UVB source? That's assuming that you have one, if you don't have a UVB light you need to get one. The basking area ahould be about 10 degrees warmer than the water to encourage them to get out and bask. 80 degrees seems too low. You should also have more than a few inches of water in the tank for them, they are excellent swimmers and will appreciate it greatly.
Get the sick little guy to a vet for sure, RI can't really be treated at home. In the mean time, read up on proper habitat and diet, it will save you a lot of headaches down the road.
Good luck and keep us posted!

[steve]

I would separate your sick turtle form the other(s) and bump up the temperatures. I know that all of a sudden you have these expenses but it happens. While a drop or fall could result in an injury (broken bones, trauma, etc.), the symptoms you describe does sound like a possible respiratory infection.

Has he been basking more often? Still the same level of activity? The heavy breathing, do you just see his throat move or do you actually hear it? Is it a wheezing sound? The listing... is he swimming lop-sided too? Swimming in circles? Is it always the same side? How much is "a bit"?

In general, it wouldn't hurt to take him in to see the vet as a precaution (plus it would be good to know your vet). Personally, if it will set your mind at ease then defiantly do it. You haven't described anything that raises alarm bells (and I'm a paranoid turtle keeper too), but just reading about doesn't give me a clear picture.

[DanM]

Basks about the same as he always has, nothing about that's really changed. I don't really *hear* breathing, just that click he'll make occasionally. So far tonight I think I've heard it about 4 times. His swimming is sort of lop-sided, but he's not doing it that much. Different times he's been startled tonight and he's swam across the tank and sat there, and looked fine. Later he'd be tilted a bit. No swimming or walking in circles. Always the same side from what I've seen.

He's not totally sideways, maybe at a 30 degree tilt or so.

Well I'm definitely going to do something about it, but I'm like... freaking out trying to deal with it until I can get him to a vet. haha.

[DanM]

I just got him out and set him on the table and he walked around, looked up at me (they always look so wise!), ran under a cloth across the table, came back out, walked around, the things he normally does. Doesn't seem to have a breathing problem at all when he's on land (and I said that in my first post actually, I don't notice any problems when he's on land) and didn't do anything odd. So I put him into the tank and he sat on the rock a moment and then dove into the water and suspended himself there for a bit, completely normal and leveled out like he should be. I left for a bit, came back, and noticed he was tilting again (and looked sleepy), it seems like it's his lower-left side that tilts up.

I haven't heard a "click" in a long while now. No mucus still, no bubbles when he's on land, a couple when he was in the water. Can't wait to get a hold of a vet to find out what's up for sure.

[Threepwood]

I just thought I'd chime in and say good luck with your situation. I'm a big worrier about this stuff, too, so you're not alone there.

Just make sure you follow everyone's advice and get him to a vet, keep him warm, and make sure he eats. From the sound of things, and since he's still eating, I'd say his chances of recovery are much better than usual. Not that I really have much experience with this sort of thing. But there ya go.

[DanM]

Odd thing is, now he's not floating sideways/tilting. Just acting a bit strange, but everyone keeps telling me I'm imagining things. Regardless I need to take him in to get him checked out before I'll let myself put him back in with the other turtle, simply because I don't want two sick little guys.

I want to take them both in actually, does anyone know if the price would be doubled for two, or if I'd get some sort of discount if there's two? It doesn't matter really, just wondering.

Also, do you think leaving the light on the sick turtle all night (for warmth) would be OK, or would that be too much light?


EDIT:::
He's not "bubbling" anymore, either. Still eating fine, but the "strange" behavior I'm referring to is sort of lethargy, not so much that it's just lying there limp, but usually when it sees someone coming it'll jump into the water or at least watching rather suspicious, whereas a while ago when I came home he was on the rock, and when I stood above he just sort of seemed to notice but not care too much.

Is it possible that if you catch the beginnings of RI fast enough (as in, that night), change the water etc, and get it warmer, a turtle can clear itself of it?

Also, can it just get a "cold" that isn't RI and could clear itself up?


I love being compulsive and paranoid. haha.

[SpotsMama]

Sometimes the symptoms of RI wax and wane in the early stages. The turtle will show symptoms, then the symptoms will seem to go away, and then they will come back. It's also possible for a turtle to recover on it's own from a mild RI, but that's not the usual case. Usually the only ones that survive are the ones that have been treated early on by a qualified vet.

I think what Steve said is correct - it can't hurt to take him to a vet and get him checked out and it might save his life.

It would be best not to leave the light on all night as your turtle needs to get his sleep. Just turn the temp on the water heater up to around 82 degrees.

It is a really good sign that symptoms are relatively mild and your turtle is still eating. That means he's strong. Good luck to you. Let us know how it goes.

[DanM]

Calling the vet first thing in the morning, thanks everyone. I built a "shack" to keep their tank(s) in tonight, basically a ventilated cabinet with shelves and a light. Should help with the temperature, considering no one in this house (save for me) can stand not having the air conditioning on at all times... convinced them to turn it off until I get the turtles taken care of, though.

As for the heater, unfortunately all I have is a 78 degree one right now, but I'm going to buy an adjustable one.

Does anyone have a link to place (web store) that would have a heater/cooler that I can adjust in case the air gets too hot (I'm about to move into my own place) I can turn down the water temperature?

[SpotsMama]

Heaters are easy. Here's a page of them:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/N ... 004+113767

By the way, the Visitherm Stealth is a great heater. Lots of people on here use they. They're plastic and shatterproof.

A cooler is a different matter. A water cooler is a very expensive proposition. However, the big danger comes from water that's too cold rather than water that's too warm. I don't know anyone who uses a cooler for their turtle tank but everyone uses a heater.

[steve]

Listing symptoms may not be obvious when he's not in the water. A 30 degree tilt sounds a lot, but like I mentioned earlier, I just don't have enough call it a RI. With the change of behavior, it would be good to look into a vet sooner than later. A vet might give you some peace of mind, but they will probably just ask you questions, do a visual exam and possible offer some medication.

As for the heater, don't wait to get it online since they have to ship it to you. You can check Petsmart or Petco and print out the page that lists the heater you want. The online stores often carry lower prices than their stores but most are willing to match their own prices. Couldn't hurt to take in a competitors page as well (like the link above, check big als too) and see if they can price match those... doesn't hurt to ask. Water heaters, along with thermometers are probably the most important thing you need which are also the most inexpensive purchases.