Urgent Care :: Abscess Removal

[SeeYouInICU]

My RES, Jerry, developed an abscess on the left side of his neck. My father, a doctor, refused to take him to a vet and would only agree that we perform the surgery ourselves. This morning, we did just that.

The wound/area where the abscess was is still pretty swollen. Is that normal, or should it the area be completely depressed right after the removal? We added hydrogen peroxide and Neosporin right after removing as much of the cheese-like pus as we could (and fed him an antibiotic solution just to be sure). We are worried that if some of the puss remains, will the abscess return and require another removal?

Also, I read online (Austin's Turtle Page) that he should be put in a completely dry container continuously for about 3 days and allowed to swim in clean water only 1-2 hours each of those three days for hydration. Is that correct, and is there anything else I should do? Should I be cleaning the wound periodically or anything?

Incidentally, I tried my hardest to convince my father to take him to a vet but he wouldn't have any of it. I ask that you please sympathise with my position and aid me in ensuring Jerry's recovery/minimizing any harm we may have done to him. Thank you in advance.

[SpotsMama]

Hi,

I hope little Jerry makes a complete recovery.

My turtle has never had an abcess so I don't know what it's supposed to look like after surgery, but someone else on here had one done recently by a vet and was asking the same question you asked about swelling. After surgery this other turtle's cheeks were still swollen. I'm assuming it will take some time for the swelling to go down, but I'd think your Dad, being a physician, would have a better feeling for this than I would.

Also, what does your Dad think about what will happen if some of the pus is left behind?

On Austin's Turtle Page - I think you can rely on it's advice in this matter. It's a well respected site. I'd break the swimming time into two or even three short sessions.

As I recall it is, after the surgery, cleaning and antibiotics, the most important things are to keep the area clean and dry for several days.

Good luck. Hopefully someone else on here will respond who has had first hand experience.

[SeeYouInICU]

Thank you for your reply. I have a few more questions:

1. What is "dry-docking"?

2. Is it O.K. to leave him in a dry tub (absolutley no water whatsoever) all night long (about 10 hours or so)?

[SpotsMama]

"Dry Docking" means keeping him in a dry place. And yes, it's ok to leave him in a dry tub overnight. I've done that with my turtle many times and so have other people on here. I do it when Spot's had a shell infection to give it a chance to heal in a dry place. I assume your turtle's very tiny. If so, then I'd be inclined to shorten the times between letting him get in the water.

Here's what I do. I have a large rubber tub with sides that are much too high for my turtle to climb out. I put a soft towel on the bottom. I also put a small dish of water in there so if Spot gets thirsty he can get a drink. The dish I use has straight sides so the water is less likely to slosh out and I put folds of the towel around it to keep it from tipping. Your bowl of water will have to be very tiny indeed if your turtle is small - you don't want your turtle to be able to climb into it and get himself all wet.

I put the tub in a safe place - where no cats or dogs can get him and it's not too cold - and cover it with another towel. I leave Spot in there and so far it's worked fine.

[marisa]

If the abcessed material is not totally removed, then, yes, the abcess is likely to continue to keep growing (like not getting all of the infected material out of an infection on you). Although, giving him antibiotics should help kill off residual bacteria.

I don't know about the swelling, some people have said that shortly after removal their turtle looked normal. I think it would depend at least in part on how big the bump was and on how skillfully the procedure was done.

Follow ATP's advice. Much of what is written there is based on experience.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Sorry.....my initial reaction to this thread is YIKES.

Good luck to you, SeeYouInICU.

[SeeYouInICU]

Update: Jerry is doing great. The abscessed area has shrunk to about its previous size although a small scar is visible. He is behaving normally and is no longer scared of us. Overall, we saved about $300 (average price quote for the vets in town) and have an interesting story to talk about. "There is no substitute for a qualified vet," but in retrospect it was a very simple procedure; a $300 treatment fee is laughable and outright ridiculous. Incidentally, an antibiotics course was not necessary (which accounted for the majority of the $300 fee).

[megcornell]

In response to your update. You got lucky. And no, there is no substitute for a qualified veterinarian. I sincerely hope your story doesn't lead other to try to remove abscesses on their own. And how would you even know if you caused permanent damage to your turtle anyways.

[steve]

I agree, you got lucky. Infections do not always manifest their symptoms immediately. Plus, who knows how much pain and stress your turtle went through with the appropriate sedative.

[marisa]

I'm glad to hear your turtle is improving, but megcornell took the words right out of my mouth. My concern is that someone will read this, think it's really simple to do, and take it upon themselves to try it themselves in an attempt to save some $$. The $300 was an average of what you were quoted, but others have had it done for less.

I'm attributing some of the luck your turtle had was due to your father being a doctor. Another turtle, in the hands of an anxious owner, might not be so lucky. There is still no substitute for a qualified herp vet...

As for the antibiotics, they are not always prescribed for ear abcesses. (But you did say your turtle had been given an antibiotic solution as a precaution. It just so happened you had them available.)

[industrial_girl_2000]

In response to your update. You got lucky. And no, there is no substitute for a qualified veterinarian. I sincerely hope your story doesn't lead other to try to remove abscesses on their own. And how would you even know if you caused permanent damage to your turtle anyways.

I agree with Meg.

In an unqualified owner's hands, a very anxious/moving/snappy turtle could move in such a way that all of a sudden you have a slip of the knife/scalpel, and WHOOPS there goes the turtle's eye (!).

I still go with my original assessment of this thread: YIKES.

I hope your turtle continues to recover quickly.

[SeeYouInICU]

In response to your update. You got lucky. And no, there is no substitute for a qualified veterinarian. I sincerely hope your story doesn't lead other to try to remove abscesses on their own. And how would you even know if you caused permanent damage to your turtle anyways.

Firstly, the esteemed "Austin's Turtle Page" does a much better job at influencing laypeople to try to remove abscesses on their own. At least I have reported that a qualified physician performed the removal.

Secondly, I could hardly attribute "luck" to a physician who has performed this procedure hundreds of times on human beings. And yes, if you do not have a physician or someone qualified to perform the removal, I would not recommend doing it alone. It was in fact a scary ordeal for me because I didn't trust in my father's skill, but now I know better. Perhaps your hostility is because you had to pay the premium price that vets are charging for basic treatment.

To ensure there is no misunderstanding, if your turtle has an abscess and you, the layperson, are thinking of removing it by yourself--don't. You may be forced to pay $300, but at least you won't have to worry about your turtle's health or bear the guilt of harming it.

[untsmurf]

He may be a qualified physician, but the last I checked, humans and turtles are quite different. I certainly wouldn't want a vet performing surgery on me so someone could save money. I don't care how long they went to school. A vet knows things your father probably doesn't.

And no website should ever (IMO) tell anyone to operate on an animal. Only a licensed vet should do it. That's what they are there for.

And I'm pretty sure I can say that nobody was trying to be hostile towards you. It just isn't an accepted practice, and we all want what is best for your turtle. It's the same reason why we help educate people about housing and substrate and all that, we want what's best and if you can't afford to provide it for your turtle, you shouldn't have one. Vet bills included.

[SeeYouInICU]

I'm glad to hear your turtle is improving, but megcornell took the words right out of my mouth. My concern is that someone will read this, think it's really simple to do, and take it upon themselves to try it themselves in an attempt to save some $$. The $300 was an average of what you were quoted, but others have had it done for less.

I'm attributing some of the luck your turtle had was due to your father being a doctor. Another turtle, in the hands of an anxious owner, might not be so lucky. There is still no substitute for a qualified herp vet...

As for the antibiotics, they are not always prescribed for ear abcesses. (But you did say your turtle had been given an antibiotic solution as a precaution. It just so happened you had them available.)

The latter part of my post argues that the vets I spoke are charging hundreds of dollars for rudimentary treatment, not that it is so easy to do that John Q. Public should try it at home. The vets I talked to seemed adamant to charge me for unnecessary treatment (antibiotics). I strongly disagree with any and all dishonest practices, this being one of them. Moreover, my father gets reimbursed less than $50 for performing this procedure on human beings, yet the vets I talked you will not hesitate to charge you $300 to treat a pet. And I'm sure I'm going to be called out on this one, but I don't place the health of my turtle on the same level as the heath of my siblings, my mother or my father.

[SeeYouInICU]

He may be a qualified physician, but the last I checked, humans and turtles are quite different. I certainly wouldn't want a vet performing surgery on me so someone could save money. I don't care how long they went to school. A vet knows things your father probably doesn't.

And no website should ever (IMO) tell anyone to operate on an animal. Only a licensed vet should do it. That's what they are there for.

And I'm pretty sure I can say that nobody was trying to be hostile towards you. It just isn't an accepted practice, and we all want what is best for your turtle. It's the same reason why we help educate people about housing and substrate and all that, we want what's best and if you can't afford to provide it for your turtle, you shouldn't have one. Vet bills included.

We're dealing with a subcutanous abscess here, not a mitral valve replacement. Thankfully, money is not an issue and if my turtle was afflicted with something more complicated than a common abscess, I would not hesitate to take it to a vet. I thank all who genuinely have the best interests of my turtle in mind.