Urgent Care :: Shell Rot with a mystery

[Alisa0206]

I have had 2 female turtles for 10 years now. So I consider myself to know a few things with out running for help but I am stumped.

We have recently got a Male RES from a pet store, eight days ago. I noticed after taking him home he had the shell rot and the pet store gave me clear iodine. Well I have had some Veternarians tell me to take a toothbrush and scub what I can off. Well I did, and the shell rot is all over his shell. To me it is a severe case. But I also noticed in the removal of the dead scutes, that underneath there are holes that are red. Some look bloody and others are brown. Im not sure if this is septicema or a fungus. It does scrape away and it smells like a dirty water/tank. I have no problem taking him to vet. But the only vets office around here the doctor is in once a week. I just want some opinions on these mystery spots until I see a vet.

[megcornell]

Can you post some pictures? At the very least, the sight of red/brown is not good. Whatever it is, it will need something stronger than iodine to get rid of it. Your best bet would be to get something prescription from your herp vet.

[Alisa0206]

These are the best pictures I can do

[steve]

Poor guy. You'd want to read this page: http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Care/medshell.htm

It also reminds me of this...
http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2579

There are probably several different kinds of infections going. I'd gently scrub what you can with diluted betadine or Hibiclens (chlorhexidine). Infections can penetrate through the shell, so it can be soft tissue you're seeing in the holes.

I'd also dry dock him frequently... let him sleep in a dry and dark area overnight.

Where are you located?

[Alisa0206]

Those links do seem to help me. Thank you! That is exactly what I have been in my own way, peeling off what I can. I treat Murphy twice a day with the iodine solution. I couldnt get any pictures of how deep some of the holes are on his shell. It seems like his shell still keeps eroding away every minute.

I also have noticed that it might also be on his plastron. He does have a hard brown patch on his leg. It reminds me of a scab.

Murphy does help me as well. He stays dry on his basking rock the entire time the light is on. He has a good appetite still. But I havent seperated him from Sandy, my long time turtle. Since I have had him a short while, they seemed to bond and I didnt want to put more stress on him. Their lights come on anywhere from 9am to 10am and shut off about midnight.

The pet store has suggested that I return it, but I dont feel right about doing that since I feel that he will be happier here with me instead of in a pet store or warehouse in a tiny tank.

[Alisa0206]

Here are some more pictures
This was after removing what easily came off.



You can see how much I removed on the second day, and I still have more to remove in some spots.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Wow, that poor guy is in rough shape.

Here is what will help: betadyne (iodine) solution will help prevent further infection. You put the solution on all the affected areas once a day for a coupla weeks, and allow him to completely dry off (the bathtub is great for this). Keep the solution out of his eyes/face, and do not add solution to his water. He's not supposed to soak in water when you do this. Apply betadyne with a Q-tip & allow him to completely dry off.

Make sure you are feeding him veggies daily in addition to his pellets (but pellets only get fed once every 2 days since they are higher in protein). Dark greens like collards will help him build healthy shell. Green lettuce is fine also.

Get a strong UVB light for your tank. MVB light if possible. Make sure he basks under it daily & completely dries off his shell in the process. Hopefully he is able to bask for more than 4 hours at a time (the longer the better....8 hours at a time is ideal). The strong UVB radiation in the light will help his shell recover.

Keep in mind that a turtle's shell grows very slowly and that the recovery time could take up to 6 months before you actually see ANY progress at all. In the meantime, continue to keep the water VERY clean to prevent infections & don't give up on all the tips above.

My turtle has had a couple of the "white spots" in the past (they were small, and some were caused by her shell getting rubbed against something rough which damaged her shell) but after a lot of sitting under her MVB ("Mercury Vapor Bulb" Powersun 100W) bulb, clean water, & lots of veggies, the white areas eventually fell off revealing brown shell underneath (!). Turtles CAN recover if we are patient enough.

[marisa]

I'm glad you're not going to return him to the pet store--if that's how you got him from them, I doubt they'd take much care in getting his shell healthy again.

That looks like some fairly bad shell rot. Do what you've been doing, but when he sees the vet, get some Nolvasan (chlorohexidine), a 2% solution, to clean the shell with (unlike Betadine, it will not damage healthy tissue). Silverdyne cream (from the vet) would also be good, as the vet about this.

[SpotsMama]

I agree you shouldn't return him to the pet store - glad to hear you're not considering that - but I would surely send them the vet bill!

[Alisa0206]

BAD NEWS!! Murphy has stopped eating and now is limp in his cage. When he sees his reflection he snaps at it. Does anyone know what might be going on? It looks like the shell rot has stopped spreading externally.

[Bascomb]

Al-06 -- Your turtle is in trouble. Your turtle needs a vet visit. It looks like some scutes came off too early and added to his problems. Steve is correct about dry-docking. I am not a vet, but if it were me, I would gently brush off his shell with table salt dissolved in warm water and let dry for about two hours. Then rinse off and dry dock him in a dry and warm place during the day. Rot and fungus does not do well when dry. When I say warm I would suggest at least 85 degrees. His shell needs to dry out. Get him to the vet as soon as possible b.

[marisa]

How long has he not been eating? By chance do you notice any pinkish/red tinge to the skin at all? I'm not trying to worry you needlessly, but if you do, combined with a lack of appetite and lethargy, he could have septicemia (blood poisoning) from the infection becoming systemic.

Even if you don't notice any change in coloration, please take him to the vet and get some Nolvasan and Silvadyne ointment (and let him know about the lack of appetite and behavior). I would not treat him with table salt (or any salt).

[Bascomb]

Mar-mod, The salt will help dehydrate the shell which is good for the rot and fungus. b.

[marisa]

I am well aware of what salt (and I wouldn't use table salt, even for fungus) will do, but this turtle needs more aggressive treatment than just salt. Nolvasan is a wonderful antimicrobial which encourages the growth of healthy tissue. Silvadyne is often recommended in the treatment of shell rot, which this turtle obviously has.

[Bascomb]

Mar-mod -- You are absolutely correct about the meds. The first thing I do, is get the carapace dry first. Very dry, and then apply the meds. I have assumed that he does not have the meds and getting the shell dry first, is the most important. The next thing they need to do is to get him to the vet. - Post haste.