Urgent Care :: Eye Problem, sign of something more??

[NZ_Scotty]

Hi guys (new to the forums, just thought i'd try and get some one elses opinion on something)

I have to RES about 4 years old, about 2 weeks ago they closed their eyes and haven't really opened them much since.

When i first noticed this, i took them to my local vet (deals with exotic pets) and he diagnosed them with a vitamin A deficiency. Gave them a vitamin injection and an antibiotic injection. I was also given a course of antibiotic injections which were carried out over the following week. I was surprised at the apparent Vitamin deficiency because the food i feed them (frozen turtle food) says it contains Vitamin A (although the vet recons the freezing of the food reduced the amount of vitamin A). They also get a calcium or vege block once a week which also has Vitamin A in it (and have been feed this way all there life - with the occasional live fish and plants about once a month).

The day after the vet visit one of them was looking a bit better opening his eyes every so often but soon returned to keeping them closed. Over the next few days they also started to shed a lot of skin which made me think maybe it was something environmental. I tested the water and sure enough the ammonia had risen quite high. Another week on and i have sorted out the water but the skin shedding is still going on and so is the closed eyes, although they do open them from time to time to eat or just check out what i'm doing. (just to confirm it is an eye problem and not them sleeping a lot, there eyes lids are puffy and sometimes quite red)

I'm not to worried about RI or anything major because they are still relatively active (although they do bump into things a lot) and are feeding swimming and basking as usual but sleeping a little more than usual as turtles may do when sick.

I just thought it might be worth asking around here to see if they was anything i might have missed. I'm going to call the vet again tomorrow just to check in but i would prefer avoiding another $300 vet bill

Sorry for the long post, just thought i would give as much info as possible to cut down on any questions.

Thanks,

Scott.

[imderanged]

What kind of UVB bulb are you using? There have been eye problems reported with some of the compact fluorecents. My turtles eyes swelled up when I was using a Reptisun compact 5.0 UVB. Sometimes adjusting the distance is enough to slove the problem. Members more experienced than I compiled more info about this subject here on the forum:
http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11796

[NZ_Scotty]

Thats good to know, i just bought 2 new bulbs about 3 weeks ago... so that sounds about right . They only have 1 brand of bulbs where i bought them from ( i can't check what brand i have till i get home ) how can they sell a product thats vital but also harmful to them??!!??

[NZ_Scotty]

Just got home. I've got 2 florescent tubes both are Reptisun 10.0
So i would say its a problem. guide lines say it should be about 60cm away from the basking area with in the burn-in phase... and they are at maximum 30cm from the backing area, so id say its a problem. I've turned both lamps off and replaced them with a standard fluorescent bulb (non-UVB) just as a test for 2 says to see if they come right.

[octpusgirl8]

Oh yeah, we had a lot of problems with the reptisun 10.0s a while back. I got a bad one and it hurt my turtle's eyes just like you're describing. The problem seemed to have been limited to the compact flourescent and not the tubes though. Regardless, the 10.0 is stronger than you need, and it could easily have caused problems if it was too close. It took about a week for my turtle to get better just so you know.

[SpotsMama]

In the past, people haven't had the same problems with the tubes as the compacts. When you said you have fluorescent tubes, did you perhaps mean to say compact fluorescents? If your turtles are having problems with tube fluorescents, then I wonder if something has changed in the bulb's manufacture, which would be disturbing.

Even the Reptisun 5.0 compact fluorescents have been known to cause eye problems. A brand of compact fluorescent that hasn't been known to cause eye problems and provides some meaningful UVB is the Exo Terra Repti Glo 5.0 26 watt compact fluorescent.

[NZ_Scotty]

They are definitely fluorescent tubes, they are each 48" long so quite large (definitely not compact fluorescent)

I previously had a 24" single tube (which i've had ever since i got them. I just recently (about 3 weeks ago) upgraded to a 48" double so it has about 4x the light capacity/intensity as before, so i would say its probably too much. If i replace it with the origional tube that came with it i.e. a non UVB tube, just for a few days will that a) give me results (tell me if it was the new tubes) b) be ok for the turtles to be without UVB for a few days.

[marisa]

Reptisun tube flourescents are reputable and really haven't caused the problems that the compact flourescents have. That said, you're using two of them, which, as you noted has increased the intensity considerably.

How far away are they from the basking turtles? Are they in a fixture that has a shiny/aluminum reflector in it? If so, that in itself can double the strength of the light(s).

To respond to your questions,

a) if you replace the lights with the original tube for several days and your turtles' eyes improve, you'll have your answer.

b) it will be OK for your turtles to be without a UVB light for a few days.

[NZ_Scotty]

thanks for your response marisa,

In regards to the distance from the basking area, the light(s) are only about 25cm (10inches) away from the basking area and according to the reptisun guide line that i downloaded from one of the forums. A bulb of my capacity should be about 40-50cm away from it. Yes it is does have a reflector making it even brighter. http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/product_detail.php?id=66 heres a link to it.

I'm heading back to the pet store today, to sort out a heat lamp for my basking area (i've asked people in pet stores a lot over the last 3 years about getting one and they always said that it wasn't necessary for turtles to a have a heat lamp) thank god for the internet!!!

oh and by the way, i've noticed a hugh difference already with the little guys since turning off the NEW lights. They have both eyes open, swimming around a lot more and sleeping a lot less.... just need them to do a little more basking as i have noticed a few pink spots (i think its called Red Foot) which if i'm correct means fungal infection??!?! Any thing i can get to treat this?? or could it go away with regular basking and adding a little aquarium salt??

[SpotsMama]

Glad to hear your turtles are doing better. The problem may very well have been too much UVB as the bulbs were very close, there were two of them, and they were being concentrated by a reflective fixture. If you can correct the distance, perhaps get a new fixture with a matte finish, and perhaps use only one UVB bulb (you can put any sort of regular tube fluorescent in the second slot) then hopefully you'll be good to go. The reptisun 10.0 bulbs are good quality bulbs (and not cheap) and you don't want to waste them.

On the pink spots, can you please post a photo?

[NZ_Scotty]

Yea, i want to try and sort something out so i can keep the bulbs i have as they are brand new and the whole setup cost me $300 (NZD)

As for the Pink skin, i'll try and take some pictures tonight but as you a probably aware its not easy getting pictures of turtles with the leg stretched out so i can see into the cavity where their leg usually tucks in (thats where the pink spot is). In the meantime, i have added some aquarium salt and it does seem to be lessening - i'll report back tomorrow.


One last thing, do you know if any of the large pet chains in the US where you can order online will ship products outside the US??? its very difficult to find anyone who stocks quality stuff locally, Mainly looking for a heat lamp fixture and bulb.

[SpotsMama]

Here's a very good site that will ship just about anywhere:

http://www.reptilesupply.com/shipping.php

For a heat lamp or heat bulb fixture, if you're using a clamp type, in the US people often buy them from general purpose hardware suppliers rather than pet supply stores. You can get good quality clamp fixtures inexpensively at US stores like Home Depot and Lowes. I don't know what your NZ counterparts would be for this type of store.

For a heat bulb, you can use a regular household incandescent bulb and save the money you'd spend buying an expensive basking bulb from a pet supply place. People typically use a 60 or 75 watt bulb - but you can use whatever achieves the correct basking temperature in your setup.

[NZ_Scotty]

Thanks for that link to that supply store.... they pointed out that all electrical items are 120volts where as we operate on 240volts so thats not going to work, but i will definitely use that site for getting other things i can't source locally...Thanks!

I'll have a look at the local hardware stores... but we don't really have a walmart equivalent here