Urgent Care :: Fungal Infections

[NotN]

I have already consulted a vet in regards to what is actually wrong with my turtles - they both have fungal infections on their shells. Originally I was told to bathe them in salt water and scrub lightly with a tooth brush (+ improve tank conditions) to help ward off the infection. Unfortunately, I fear that over the past half year the infection has worsened to the point of no return - the infection covers about a quarter of their shells.

My goal right now is just to make them as comfortable as possible, if not rid them of their illness. I can't afford to drive an hour to the vets, pay the vet fees, and buy prescription medicine, so I would like to look into over-the-counter options. I would like to continue the salt baths, plus give them proper medication.

Does anyone have reccomendations for medication?

I assure the tank conditions are correct (I've been referencing this site for over a year in regards to this), but I suppose size would play into their medication, since they're not adults quite yet: the larger turtle is about 3 inches (shell length), and the smaller about 2.5.

This is very frusterating for me, because I got these as a surpise Easter gift, and it took me about 4 or 5 months to get a proper setup for them, and of course by that time one of them was sick, which led to the other one getting sick, and by the time I recognized that it wasn't shedding that was causing their shells to be discolored, I had to spend months trying to convince my dad to let me take them to the vet. He never did let me. So my grandmother took them, and even paid for the appointment. I never got the chance to go back again for a check-up. So for the past few months I've had to acknowledge the fact that these beautiful little babies were slowly dying, and that's it.

Phew... now I'm all vented.
But yeah.
Medication reccomendations, anyone?

[megcornell]

I'm surprised the vet didn't give you a medication when you saw him. Usually SSD or silver sulfadiazine is used for shell fungal infections. I believe you may be able to get it OTC, but I'm not sure.
Since the fungus is still spreading, I'd highly recommend seeing a vet. What are the tank conditions like now? As you know, if they aren't remedied there's little hope that the issue will resolve itself.
Fungal issues can be easily treated- when treated correctly, so don't give up hope, it's certainly not a death sentence where you should just "keep the turtles comfortable."
Also, if you could post pictures, that would be very helpful in letting people see what's going on so they could recommend some actions to take.

If you do see a vet, make sure they're a herp vet. Non-herp vets will often see turtles, but really aren't effective in treating them as it's a guessing game to them. Herp vets see fungal infections every day and will be instrumental in helping you figure out how to successfully combat it.

[grey goose]

In the short term, try going to the pet store and getting AQUARIUM salt. Regular table salt won't work and may do more harm than good. Follow the directions carefully (don't over do it) and add to the tank. That should keep the fungus down.
Do you have a good, properly maintained filter that's rated for your size tank? Basking ramp and lights? Do you test for ammonia at least weekly? With fungus problems, you have to keep the water squeaky clean.

As megcornell said, there is a med that you can get OTC, but I can't recall what it's name is. Someone should be along who knows what it's called.....
Can you post a pic of the shells dry?

[TheComputerGremlin]

Can you answer the questions located here: http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2142

That will help us with the tank setup. Also, pictures of the tank setup would be very helpful. It's possible that if you saw a vet 6 months ago, you could speak to them on the phone and say someone you know that has turtles that had a fungal infection was given silver sulfadiazine and see if the vet can fax a prescription over to a pharmacy. At least that way you can see if that medicine will work better.

Also, see if your grandmother can take you back to the vet with the turtles (you can offer to pay for it or do chores for her!) and get them seen again.

[marisa]

"Bathing in salt water" means???

Salt water baths (either aquarium or kosher salt) should have helped them when you first noticed there was a problem. What kind of salt are you using, and how much are you using to what amount of water?

Can you post pictures of their shells dry?

What are the "tank conditions"---

What size tank are they in?
What kind of filtration is being used?
How often is the water changed?
What is their basking area like?
What's the temp of the water and basking area?
What kind of UVB are you using? How old is it?

[NotN]

I appologize, I probably should have explained the vet thing better. And I will post the tank stats. And I'll have pics tomorow.

The vet had given me the notion that if the infection got too bad, the turtles would die, but now I at least have hope, haha.

I would ask my grandmother for help, but she lives 2000 miles away. I'd pay for the thing myself, but I live in the middle of nowhere, and the few jobs that are availible right now are given to people with work experience. So right now I'm just doing volunteer work until I get a job, which = no money.

The salt bath itself is 2 liters of water with 20 grams of Instant Ocean or non-iodized salt. I've been using non-iodized salt, finding it cheaper, plus I can sneak it out of the pantry without my dad knowing he's spending money on salt for my turtles. They soak for 15-20 mintutes, then get a gentle scrubing with the toothbrush.

How big is your turtle? : They are 3" and 2.5"
How long have you had it? 2 years or so.

What is the water temperature? 76 F
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
Are you using a water heater? No, it's summer in FL, however I will be buying one in the winter.
How much water is in there? As much as possible, leaving room for the basking area.
Are you using a water conditioner? No, I use reverse osmosis water in the tank, so it doesn't need conditioning.
Are you using any filtration? Yes, and I change the water regularly (once per week, plus a full clean monthly). I believe it was the water conditions when I first had the turtles that resulted in the infection.

What is the basking temperature? [will update tomorow when basking light is on]
Is there a basking light? Yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? It's made out of lego platforms connected with hot glue, suppoted by plastic-coated wires.
Is there a UVB light? Yes, and its a few months old. It's a Repti Glo 5.0 Compact Tropical Terrarium Lamp.

What have you been trying to feed it? Reptomin Baby pellets, in proportion to head, and romain lettuce.
When was the last time your turtle ate? Today.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 20 gallons, temporarily (the old tank broke). My birthday is less than a month from now, and I expect to recieve at least $20 from my grandfather (he's too lazy to buy a gift, lol) so I can buy a 40 gallon rubbermaid to use until I get enough money to build a real tank. Which is going to be amazing.
Is the tank near a window? No.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? No.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes.
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? Nope.

I can't really afford to pay $15 at Petco for an ammonia test, so maybe I should do water changes twice a week, rather than once?

I found a medication-type-thing today, called Sulfa Dip.
http://www.petco.com/product/12515/Zoo-Med-Repti-Turtle-Sulfa-Dip.aspx

It seems to be well-rated.

There's also something called reptogaurd that releases a fungal preventative over time.
http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?familyid=6313&Ntt=reptoguard&OneResultRedirect=1
Could it be useful?

Question: Silver Sulfadiazine is availilble as a topical cream for burns at a regular drug store. Would it be possible to use this as a treatment for them?

Thanks for helping guys It means a lot to me to have people supporting the care of these poor guys. At home I get yelled at every time I spend money on them.

[NotN]

I forgot to mention: my vet seemed to think they would need medication in a pill form, which it why she avoided prescribing any for me, since it would be ridiculously hard to get a baby to eat a pill. (they used to be much smaller)

I'm not sure if she actually is a reptile vet (the closest vet taking turtles was at a bird hospital) but she'd has years of experience at a turtle rescue, and seemed to know what she was doing.

[NotN]

Aaaaand photos....

The tank:

I seem to have deluded myself with wishful thinking about the tank. Somewhere along the line I managed to convince myself it was 20 gallons, but obviously its barely at 10 gallons.

The turtles:

[NotN]

And basking temp. is in the high 80's.

[steve]

That does not look too bad. It is fungus and is contagious as you can see. Layers of scutes that have been completely penetrated will not respond to treatment, but can't do more damage. They can infect the scutes underneath but not nearly as bad since it will not be able to thrive until the upper scute is shedding or has shed off. What you need to do is make sure your turts shed regularly. If not, it can lead to retained scutes and prompting a possible infection.

SSD is effective and fast, not to mention fairly inexpensive. It is a prescription, but most vets carry it and there are places online to look (DO NOT post such links here, I do recommend that a vet monitor the course of treatment).

Fungus is equally aggressive and very opportunistic. For my RES, it has built some resistance to it so do make sure that your habitat is as good as possible and that both your turts are symptom free when they are together.

[megcornell]

Also, for water tests, I know petsmart does free ones if you have one nearby.
You just need to bring a tank sample into the store.
I'd imagine petco has a similar deal in their fish section.

[TheComputerGremlin]

You can also buy strip tests at Walmart. You get a box of like 50 for $15, so maybe you can convince your parents that you should do monthly tests and ask if you can get some of those.

Sulfa dip, though highly rated, is often given unnecessarily by owners and then the turtles build up a tolerance to it. It might be helpful for you to use once, but don't overuse it.

Call a vet and try to explain your situation to them. They may be able to contact the previous vet to get records and may write a prescription for you without needing a full exam.

[NotN]

@steve: sorry 'bout the links, feel free to have them removed >_<
I will get to a vet if I can, but the closest one is already to far for me to go to. I'm anticipating a move in the near future, so I'll check out vets in the new area.

Does this mean the lower layers of scutes will always remain discolored? How can I tell if the top layer has healed?

@meg:I'll look into the free tests Thanks for the tip.

@Gremlin: that looks like a decent price, I'll see if I can get them online - Walmart is nonexistant here XD

I'll check with my old vet about the prescription....

Thanks for the help everyone

I'm so glad this isn't as serious as I'd though.

[untsmurf]

Also, it looks like both of your turtles' plastrons have scratches on them. That is probably being caused by the Lego basking area. You could cover it with some shelf liner and that should soften it up. You could also buy a basking dock. I hope your turtles get better.

[NotN]

Shelf liner I have and shall use =D Thanks for the suggestion