Urgent Care :: My juvie RES has become picky very suddenly---worried

[aniyvwiya]

Hi, I'm Angel, and I am about to unleash a pretty neurotic, long, help query post. I apologize ahead of time for the length of this post, I just want to be as detailed as possible to give an accurate picture.
I am new to turtle care, I only have my RES because I found him on the road as a hatchling nowhere near a fresh water source. I love him dearly, his name is Cookie Monster.


here are the pre-req answers:


How big is your turtle? 4.5 inches
How long have you had it? 6 months

What is the water temperature? Normally around 75
Did you use a thermometer? No, it broke, I need to get a new one ;/
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? About 10 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? At first but not for the past 3 weeks
Are you using any filtration? Yes but since changing to the 10 gallon I've been switching the water every day because the water filter is pretty small

What is the basking temperature? He basks outside and I live in Florida
Is there a basking light? No, I take him outside every day and leave him out for hours and hours and hours in a partially shaded area and bring him in at night
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? The floating dock has become too small, and he's been struggling to get on it for the past month so I put a large rock in there recently that he can climb up on
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Concrete
Is there a UVB light? No, just sun, is that bad?

What have you been trying to feed it? He has grown up on pellets, Reptomin pellets, as a staple and romaine, chicken, beef...
When was the last time your turtle ate? A few minutes ago, tuna fish

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? It's one of those large clear plastic storage containers and I fill it with upwards of ten gallons of water
Is the tank near a window? When he's not outside under the sky, he's never far from a window
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Yes, but he's always been and he seems to like the attention. He isn't shy at all.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Honestly no, because I feel like my situation is kind of specific, hopefully that's ok

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? Other than what I'm about to discuss? Let me explain...

In April, I found a tiny itty bitty hatchling RES walking across my street. There is no body of fresh water anywhere near where he was found so I have no idea what he was doing there. His yolk sac was absorbed but he was very very small, silver dollar sized. I found out he was illegal, so I kept him and bought a tank and a dock and pellets and dechlorinating drops and a small air pump/filter. He didn't for the first few days, then he became a pig. The first thing he ate was a bait fish I bought at the store, after that he ate pellets. For the past 6 months he's been a total pig. He never got full. He's grown to be 4.5 inches long and he's always been perky and not shy at all. About 3 weeks ago I noticed he was eating less. He wasn't begging the way he used to. The weird thing is that one day he was his regular pig self and then the next day, literally, he was barely interested.
He steadily grew less and less interested in food, but never flat out refused to eat. During that time I began using tap water without dechlorinator because I read some say it helps reduce bacteria and that it wasn't harmful. This didn't initiate his decrease in appetite, so I didn't think it was related. It really seemed like he went from super hungry to sort of disinterested overnight, then gradually less and less interested over time. I moved him into his larger tank, using regular tap water, always making sure he got at least 7 or 8 good hours of sunlight each day. Since the switch a week ago, he hasn't really changed. I gave up on the pellets around 2 weeks ago, offering them but not relying on them, because it seems like he only wants to eat new things. For instance, 4 days ago I gave him some fish and shrimp cat food and he loved it. The next day I gave him the same and he wasn't interested. I offered him some cheese and he devoured it. Still no interest in pellets. Yesterday I tried him on tunafish, he loved it. He tried some fish flakes, semi-interested. He liked the cheese a lot again. Today I gave him more tunafish and cheese, as it's all he'll eat and I want him to at least eat something. Still no interest in pellets. But tonight another problem arose: He had puffy eyes and wouldn't open them for about an hour. I rinsed them with some collyrium and aquafina and read up on the effects of chlorine levels. 5 minutes after the rinse he opened his eyes up, thank god. I wondered also if it could have had anything to do with the porch roof leaking into his tank during a severe rainstorm we experienced tonight, perhaps some chemical got into the water on its journey through the roof and irritated him?
I placed him back in his smaller tank with 2 gallons of spring water warmed to around 80 as per the direction for sore eyes. His little eyes stayed open but slightly irritated, and that was when I offered him the tuna and cheese I mentioned. I'm sure cheese isn't the best thing in the world for him, but there have been days when he turns his nose up to everything like pellets, dried shrimp, fish flakes, lean chicken...so finding that he'll eat cheese was a pretty big thing for me. The most he's gone without appearing to eat anything has been a day or 2, usually he'll pick a little, but for the past few nights he's at least eaten eagerly for a good 15 minutes. It just seems like I have to offer him weird new things, and to go so suddenly from him being a virtual bottomless pit to fickle in a period of a few days is alarming. Until tonight no other abnormalities were visible, but the swollen eyes have lead me to decide not to use untreated tap water anymore. The problem is the sudden switch from piglet to picky happened in less than 2 days and was BEFORE I switched to untreated tap water. I just don't get it, what variable changed? I can't imagine. All I can think is that a combination of not being able to properly dry off after outgrowing his dock, temperature problems [due to broken thermometer, maybe his water got too cool] and stress of changing his tank combined to exacerbate his picky eating?
The thing is, he hasn't been refusing to eat, so I didn't think it was serious enough to take him to the vet. I am no expert on reptiles, I've kept snakes and a Uromastyx, but I am more of a warm blooded animal care expert. I have been dealing with a sick ferret so financially it's difficult to get the turtle to the vet and I have a tendency to panic and make unwarranted vet visits so I was trying to wait it out. Had he gone a stretch of days eating nothing I would have taken him, but he hasn't, he's just turned very picky very suddenly.
I should add that in the middle of these past few weeks I moved to a knew house, and moved his tank to the porch when he's not out basking, and the porch sees less human activity than his front row seat in the kitchen in the previous house. I wondered if that could've made him lonely or less secure.
I apologize if not using a special lamp is a huge big no no, but I felt that giving him a heater and daily sunlight for hours [not like he's baking in the sun, I place him somewhere with half shade] was sufficient. He goes out in the morning and comes in in the evening.
I've also considered that winter approaching could have lessened his appetite?
Regardless, he refuses to eat anything of real nutritional value like his pellets, and I know that isn't good for him. I'm going to buy him some Vitamin A supplement and perhaps some guppies or dried crickets/shrimp tomorrow along with water conditioner and a Dr. Turtle sulfa block. I'm also going to get some cod liver oil to rub on his eyes as I've read it helps with irritation.
What suggestions should I consider? Am I neglecting a very serious issue unwittingly?
I appreciate any advice, I really love the little stinker with all my heart.

[SpotsMama]

When you take him outside, do you take him with his complete setup, or does he have a separate setup for outside compared to inside?

Sunlight is good for him as long as he isn't overheating and dehydrating and can get out of the sun if he wants. As long as you can give him good sun every day he can get along without the UVB bulb.

Moving to a new location can be stressful for a young turtle - they can be pretty sensitive to location. Being stressed can cause temporary loss of appetite. If it goes on for more than a few days, however, then stress due to a move is probably not his problem.

On diet, you should read up on the nuitrition section here. One thing turtles will do is hold out for the really "good" stuff like tuna, chicken and shrimp if they think they can get it, instead of eating their pellets and veggies like they should. It's like kids - if they think they can get chocolate cake, they'll hold out for it and skip the healthy food. So you have to be the parent and make sure the diet is balanced. It won't hurt a healthy turtle to miss a few meals, so stick with it and he'll come around to his good diet. You can help with a transition from the high protein foods to pellets by soaking the pellets in tuna water for awhile to make them more enticing. It's really quite bad for turtles to be constantly fed a rich, high protein diet.

Skip the sulfa block - it won't do any good for your turtle. Skip the vitamiin A supplement. Do put some cod liver oil on his eyelids - if he has a vitamin A deficiency the cod liver oil will cure it.

Runoff from the roof getting in his tank is quite worrisome. No telling what was on the roof. Just be sure his tank and water are completely cleaned out and that it doesn't happen again.

I am concerned about his poor appetite combined with his irritated eyes. The most common symptoms of respiratory infection (RI) in turtles are lethargy (sluggish, wanting to sleep too much), poor appetite and swollen or irritated eyes. However, I'm not sure I can follow the sequence of events in your post - (1) is he currently eating poorly and having swollen eyes? (2) Is he also lethargic? (3) Have you noticed him yawning a lot or breathing with his mouth open?

[aniyvwiya]

No I do not change his tank to take him outside, I just lug the thing out there. I place him in mild areas of sunlight, I make sure he's not baking.
Thanks so much for the quick response! To answer your last line question:

He has been eating poorly for 2-3 weeks now, and only tonight has he had swollen eyes. That just happened. The roof run off thing was accidental, the water didn't appear dirty or anything and he was only in it for maybe an hour and a half but then his eyes swelled. Once I rinsed them good he opened them back up, after having them shut for maybe 30 minutes that I observed. They were puffy but not red. He's now in his old smaller tank with spring water because I brought him inside to observe for the night.
He has not been breathing with his mouth open, and I've never seen him yawn. As for lethargy, I can't really tell since he's never done much moving around unless begging for food and since he's been uninterested in food he hasn't really been begging. He isn't super lethargic from what I can tell though, no. When I pick him up he moves around and if I let him on the floor he runs around a little. I don't do that often because I hear the temp change is upsetting.
I considered that he may have just been manipulating me for yummy food instead of pellets, but when he stopped being interested in pellets he also lost interest in his usual favorites: chicken, beef, brine shrimp, dry high protein cat food...it was weird and very sudden, I still don't understand how it could happen so suddenly. Also, lately, one night he'll get something new like ham or turkey breast and LOVE it and the next day he'll rebuff it. He will approach it and appear to sniff it,then turn away. It's like he's interested in the food until he sniffs it and realizes it's not what he wants. If he wants it, he sniffs it and scarfs it. Unfortunately, I can't say that he's eating even a third of what he used to. I'd say on the days he consumes, he consumes less than half a spoonful total of food. He used to love his pellets, and anything else you fed him, and now when I put pellets in his tank he doesn't even bother sniffing them he just tunes them out. If he were scarfing the other stuff I give him I'd be ok with that but I kind of have to work with him just to get him to eat anything at all. Is it possible that the chlorine is irritating his eyes to the point that his vision is impaired, making it difficult to go after food? Thanks again.

[Arisu]

During that time I began using tap water without dechlorinator because I read some say it helps reduce bacteria and that it wasn't harmful. This didn't initiate his decrease in appetite, so I didn't think it was related.

Are you still doing this? chlorine is very harmful for your turtle. I forgot to de-chlorinize my tap water (just once) and my turtles kept their eyes shut for the whole day. MAKE SURE YOU GIVE HIM DE-CHLORIZINED WATER!

[SpotsMama]

If the ONLY symptom he currently has is less appetite than usual, and not lethargic, no swollen or irritated eyes, and no mouth breathing, then I wouldn't worry too much about the appetite. Turtles have moods just like people. Also they are pretty sensitive to their surroundings. Some turtles slow down with a change in seasons. Many are disturbed by a move to a new place. I'd give it a while longer before getting too worried.

However, you should try to nudge him back to a healthy diet. Pellets soaked in tuna juice are often popular with picky eaters. Don't overdo the quantity - at 4.5 inches in straight shell length all a turtle needs is a headfull of pellets every other day. Possibly your turtle has been feeling stuffed with too much rich food and that's why he hasn't been as interested.

Keep an eye on him and if he starts showing other signs of not feeling good, find a good herp vet and take him in.

[steve]

So you are taking him outside and he is kept in a container? There is a lot of guessing (tank size, water temps), you should try to offer a more consistent environment and diet.

-- He should not be transported in a container with water.
-- You should never move a tank with water (or with equipment/decorations inside).
-- He should not roam around on a concrete floor too often (it is very abrasive and can be very hot).
-- He should not be outside for hours without access to water.
-- In his tank, basking can help his appetite. He should always have access to one.

As for treatment, I suggest you try what SpotsMama has laid out in her posts.

[PcBuilder14]

for a turtle to grow to 4.5 inches within 6 months is way to fast. Sounds like you are feeding the turtle way to much food.

[Arisu]

Use your water conditioner.

[SpenceMasta]

ive always used regular chlorinated tap water for years and have never had a health issue

i cant believe no one has said anything about feeding your turtle CHEESE!?!?

fermented dairy products are definitely not in a reptile diet, the only reason human beings and other mammals can eat dairy is because we have enzymes that break down lactose because we nurse on milk, even then we lose the ability sometimes by being lactose intolerant, turtles never feed on milk and cant digest it