Urgent Care :: Concerns About My Painted Turtle

[Joki]

My situation is sort of a double problem:

1) Alright, so my little guy is being a bit of a brat. About 2 months ago, he began refusing turlte pellets. I had two brands: Nutrifin and Wardley. He loved them...now he literally turns his nose up at them. Before beginning my panic tirade that it was possible he was sick, I tried feeding him a worm, which he ate quite happily. I have also tried fish and he likes those as well. So, obviously, he's just being finicky and got tired of the same old stuff.

My issue is that I'm afraid he's not going to get the required vitamins he needs just eating worms and fish so I bought a calcium and vitamin D3 powder that I dust his food in. Obviously, some of it comes off when he feeds in the water but its still getting in his mouth. I'm worried about the vitamin A though. I've fed him fruit and lettuce and he won't eat it. He's only a year old so I'm guessing he's still at his canivorious stage. Í found some all purpose supplement for reptiles but its looks dusty and difficult to apply to an aquatic turtle.

Any suggestions that I could use to solve this problem? Is there a way to get him back on the pellets (he liked them before and its possible he'll like them again right?)?

2) My turtle was situated in a lab that I worked in for 5 months that I had him because I couldn't find a large enough tank that was affordable. Last week I found a 27 gallon tank that was a steal and decided it was time to bring him home. So I set everything up the exact same way it was in the lab (filter, heater, docks, heat source and UvB lamp). Now, after a day, he's eating again. Still wants fish and worms though. He is understandly skittish; new area. He freaks out if anyone comes near his tank and swims against the glass frantically. Even when its me but stops once he notices who it is. This isn't the problem though.

He won't bask or I'm suspecting he's not. The dry area is different from what he is used to. In the lab tank, I just piled some rocks up and he used that but now I'm using those artifcial floating docks because its easier to clean the tank. Today I put a decorative tank background at the rear and sides of the tank to make him feel more secure.

I have caught him once or twice basking when I peeked around the corner only to send him diving into the water out of fear. I figure he's just scared and will be fine in a week. I'm just used to him basking all time like he did in the lab. Also, his shell before the move was flaky, like he had a sunburn almost. It doesn't smell, nor mushy, nor comes off when wiped away so its not shellrot. It's almost as if his shell is dry, which is probably because he basked so much and didn't spend enough time in the water. So, I seem to have the opposite problem now .

He's been in the new area since Friday, December 26, 2008.
27 gallon tank
40 gallon filter
heater
5.0 uvb bulb (needs changing, but the store won't have any until Tuesday).
60 watt incandescent bulb for heat
He's a year old and about 5-6 inches long
Water temp 72F

I realize I'm probably worried over nothing but I wanted to double check to put my mind at ease.

[SpotsMama]

1.) You might try a different brand of pellets. My turtle didn't like Nutrifin and he didn't care for Monster either. But he absolutely adores Reptomin and Mazuri. Has eaten them with enthusiasm for years.

If your little guy has learned that he can get fish and worms, he may be slow to switch back to a healthier diet. If so, try soaking some pellets in tuna water, then applying a little tough love until he makes the transition. Keep offering the veggies. It's true he's still in the carnivorous stage but he should always be encouraged to eat his greens. My turtle (and others too, so I've heard) would eat fresh basil long before he'd touch any other veggie. Occasional steamed sweet potato or blueberries are also especially popular with turts.

2. A week is a really short amount of time for a turtle and he's probably still just adjusting to the new setup. The turtle dock is better for his shell than the rocks, so it's a good move. He's probably just shy and basking when you're not around. You can put a few pellets on the dock, then go away and when you come back if they've been moved, then you know he's a closet basker. Don't worry, he'll get less shy with time.

Sounds like he's growing fine. You know the tank you got him is undersized. The rule of thumb is 10 gallons of tank for every inch of turtle. If he's a male, he won't get more than 7" or 9" long, which means (only) a 70 gallon tank or larger. He'll really appreciate more space and you'll find a large tank (with a good filter) is much easier to keep clean than a small tank. Something to plan for in the (near) future.

On the shell, if you're concerned, start another thread and show us some photos of it when it's dry.

[nickyds23]

I'm just gonna assume that you meant to put 72 degrees Fahrenheit for his water temp, not Celsius.
72 is a little cold for his temperature.
75 is the optimum temperature since he's over 4".

[Joki]

Yes, I did mean Fahrenheit. That's what happens when you post something at 2 in the morning.

Anyway, I will change the temp 75, but I keep finding different optimal temps for painted turtles on the internet, so I went with the most common.

Ah, I knew I should have bought the Reptomin pellets that I saw today. A lot of people recommend those. I don't have any fresh basil on me in the winter, but tons in the spring-summer that I grow myself. I am placing a piece of romaine lettuce in the water hoping that he will eventually nip at it (seems like he has), but I'll try offering him other things.

His shell doesn't seem that big of a concern. I've been researching into what his shell looks like and it matches cases of dry shell. I've been putting vitashell on it and its receding. I'll post pictures of his shell tomorrow though to double check.

Thanks for the help.

[TheComputerGremlin]

Try other dark leafy greens, like green leaf lettuce or red leaf lettuce. Those were the first lettuces my turtle ate. Also, you can buy fresh basil in the grocery stores during the winter.

Are you sure you have a male? 5-6 inches in one year would be more indicative of a female. You can post pictures of the claws and underside of the tail if you want the board's opinion.

And be careful of the vitashell. It is, as I understand, essentially wax. Used in moderation, it can help, but if you over use it just a little, it will deprive the shell of oxygen and cause more harm than good. I doubt you would want to use it for more than a week.

[marisa]

Wow, 5-6 inches and only a year old? What kind of painted is he and how are you measuring him (should be down the back from in back of the neck to just above the tail and not include the curve of the shell)? I have three male Eastern Painteds that just turned 4 years old and none of them is even that big. I don't think sex is playing part at only a year old. How much is he being fed?

I'd like to see a picture of his shell if you can post it. Painted turtles are more prone to shell problems than say, RES, if the water is not kept clean. They are less tolerant of dirty water, and if that filter is rated for a 40-gallon tank and is in a 27-gallon tank, it's not going to do that much for water quality (both the tank and the filter are too small for him---10 gallons of tank per inch of shell length, i.e., a 50-60 gallon tank, and a filter that's rated for at least 3X the size of that).

If he's an Eastern or Midland Painted and healthy, the water temp is fine at 72F: it actually could be even a bit cooler. (These two subspecies can take cooler temps than RES, especially when older, but many keepers don't allow the temps to go anywhere near what they can take.) What's the temp of the basking area? Try for high 80's to 90F (check it with a thermometer), no more.

No Vitashell, period.

Painteds are a tad more carnivorous than RES, BUT there is really no "phase" to speak of. I've had mine from tiny hatchlings, and they had some plant matter from the get-go, starting with anacharis (aquatic plant). If you have a Petsmart near you and it sells something called San Francisco Bay Brand Aquatic Turtle Food, small frozen cubes of pollock, bloodworms, etc. mixed with dandelions, carrot bits and other good things. It can be messy, but if you cut a cube up (I usually cut quarter it) and feed him pieces as he eats them (if he likes it, he'll eat it fast), the mess will be minimalized.

If you're worried about getting Vit A into him, try small pieces of red bell pepper,bits of sweet potato or yams (steam lightly and cut into small pieces) or some carrot peels. Mine get some of each of these foods about once a week. They're high in beta carotene, which is converted to Vit A. My painteds like all of them.

[Joki]

Wow, 5-6 inches and only a year old? What kind of painted is he and how are you measuring him (should be down the back from in back of the neck to just above the tail and not include the curve of the shell)? I have three male Eastern Painteds that just turned 4 years old and none of them is even that big. I don't think sex is playing part at only a year old. How much is he being fed?

Sorry. I measured him wrong. He's closer to 4 inches.

I'd like to see a picture of his shell if you can post it. Painted turtles are more prone to shell problems than say, RES, if the water is not kept clean. They are less tolerant of dirty water, and if that filter is rated for a 40-gallon tank and is in a 27-gallon tank, it's not going to do that much for water quality (both the tank and the filter are too small for him---10 gallons of tank per inch of shell length, i.e., a 50-60 gallon tank, and a filter that's rated for at least 3X the size of that).

I'm starting to think he has a bacterial growth. Will a sulfa dip fix it?

Really? A 40 gallon rated filter isn't enough? The tank is about half-filled though. That's not a big deal. I can always get a better filter.

I'll also look for a bigger tank. But I have been daily cleaning the bottom of the tank with a graval siphon (there is no gravel though if anyone starts calling me on that) and adding new water. I also use Turtle Clean.

If he's an Eastern or Midland Painted and healthy, the water temp is fine at 72F: it actually could be even a bit cooler. (These two subspecies can take cooler temps than RES, especially when older, but many keepers don't allow the temps to go anywhere near what they can take.) What's the temp of the basking area? Try for high 80's to 90F (check it with a thermometer), no more.

From what I've seen, he's an Midland Painted Turtle.

I raised the temp to 24C according advice given. I doubted he was cold though. His appetite is very healthy. I figured the temp of the basking area was low so I upgraded to a 100 watt incandescent bulb and he's basking again.

No Vitashell, period.

I only used it once. I doubt I'll use it very much. I've read a lot of people don't like this product, but its all I could find.

Painteds are a tad more carnivorous than RES, BUT there is really no "phase" to speak of. I've had mine from tiny hatchlings, and they had some plant matter from the get-go, starting with anacharis (aquatic plant). If you have a Petsmart near you and it sells something called San Francisco Bay Brand Aquatic Turtle Food, small frozen cubes of pollock, bloodworms, etc. mixed with dandelions, carrot bits and other good things. It can be messy, but if you cut a cube up (I usually cut quarter it) and feed him pieces as he eats them (if he likes it, he'll eat it fast), the mess will be minimalized.

By "phase" I meant his age. Younger turtles are more carnivorous. I've tried offering him plants and he just looks at it and then looks at me as if he doesn't understand why I'm giving him this and not meat .

The Petsmarts around me aren't that great. They really limit the amount of turtle products that they have. That brand of food doesn't sound familiar from what I've seen there before, but I'll take a look again. I don't think its a problem of not liking the pellets I'm giving him, but that he's tired of them. He liked them a lot. He just stopped eating them recently when I fed him a fish once. Now he's finicky.

[marisa]

Look in the frozen food locker---every Petsmart I've ever seen has one. The cubes have a slightly fishy smell. I have not found a turtle that didn't like the stuff.

Your painted could very well be a Midland, unless s/he's an intergrade (the result of two sub-species mating).

[Joki]

Yeah. My turtle looks like an in-between. He has the marking of a Midland, but the plastron is a tan yellow with a thick black stripe in the middle. Along the edges there is a red tinge.

How's the shell look? I've tried to find similar picutres on the forum, but it doesn't really look like shell rot or fungus. It disappears when he's in the water. Possible dry shell or he's about to shed is the closest I've found.

I've seen the frozen stuff at Petsmart. I just don't remember seeing that brand. I'm sure they have it.

[marisa]

Question: do you have well water? If so, does it go through a water softener?

[Joki]

Well water? Water from a well I'm guessing is what you mean. No. I live in Canada but I'm in the vincinty of the Great Lakes, so our water comes from there.

You thinking its hard water deposits?

[marisa]

I'm guessing the haze is only seen when he's dried off...I thought the water could have something to do with it (along with that filter not keeping the water that clean, even though it may look clear). Of my painteds, two are in house water from a well, one is in a separate tank that is kept filled with spring water. The well water is quite hard and goes though a softener, but still is pretty crappy. The painted that gets the spring water has a shiny shell, the other two will occasionally get slight films on their shells, which disapper when I step up my cleaning routine and water changes. I was thinking your painted could have something similar (a film of bacteria, perhaps) especially since it doesn't look like the scutes have been breached (if they were and it continued, then I'd think fungus eventually leading to shell rot).

It's interesting to me, but for part of last summer the two were outside in a 300-gallon stock tank with the same well water and basically the same number of partial water changes but they had the sun to bask under. Their shells were like two pieces of shiny coal. It says something about the power of the sun.

[Joki]

Yeah. You can only see the haze when he's dried off.

I made another thread for it since SpotsMama suggested it.

I'm getting answers of mild shell rot to mineral deposits.

[marisa]

It's not shell rot.

[Joki]

I didn't think so either. That's a relief. I checked the water for hardness with a test kit. General hardness is 180 ppm (mg/L).