Urgent Care :: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:24 pm   Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

It is my understanding that laying eggs takes a lot nutritionally out of a Red-eared slider. Paffie used to be pudgy so I put her on a diet, but had I known she were gravid I would have kept her diet up. I increased her diet today now that I have evidence of eggs in the water. I noticed them while I was vacuuming the floor of the tank. The water also smelled like a rotten egg.

However, the huge concern is over the raw patch of skin the top of her tail. I dabbed it with paper towel and saw no signs of blood. I have no idea how long the skin on the tail has been like this.

Here is a picture of the "raw" patch of skin: Image


The evidence of egg: Image

Then finally, a picture of the white spot on the corner of a scute. This white spot is hard. Image


Please help, I'd at least like to hear suggestions on what the cause of the skin condition could be. I dry docked her for two hours today and applied Bag-Balm. I have more coming the in mail tomorrow along with betadine, and "Vetericyn Reptile Antimicrobial Wound and Skin Care Plus" spray. Knowing how Amazon is often a day late on "one-day shipping", I will likely find myself picking up Betadine at the local store tomorrow afternoon.

I feel terrible, I even ordered this ointment from zoomania1.com "Herpcare Skin and Shell Treatment" -- but accidentally selected $80 shipping, sent an e-mail to cancel the order and am waiting for it to be acknowledged. I'd hate to pay so much for shipping on a product if I don't even know it'll help. Obviously the money would be better spent on a vet at that point.
djronnieg
 
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:19 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Need to re sized pictures. I copied them to my PC/software to see all. The shell shows early signs of early ulceration. Turtle shell takes a long time to show problems. Check to see if UVB is still producing proper rays , they will still produce light long after it stopped with usable UVB rays. Adjust diet and adjust habitat you have some old pitting too on shell. Has a few things going on. The small edge chip on the scute will heal and may leave an imperfection. The tail area is not bad not if kept clean and treated. “Both” may be treated with products you getting they are just an all purpose antimicrobial. Photo evidence of your egg shell ??? never seen a yellow "egg" shell with RES’s , looks more like broken piece of plastron , maybe bottom edge of a marginal scute . Something in tank caused these problems , without pictures of the tank can't tell. Turtles use all parts of there body and shell to push and dig around in a tank. Also adjusting diet for her age would help achieve a healthier shell too. She should be on 50-70% veggies at her age. Also what are you parameter's on your water?

To me the biggest problem is “if” laying eggs in the water. She knows it’s wrong and she’s doing her best to hold them in. Not good , make a nest box or take her outside to your garden or ask a neighbor to use there garden area for her to lay all eggs. If it’s a good area for her she will dig and lay eggs in 20-30 minutes. Best time to do this is when she act’s real nut’s , she may try to dig in the aquarium or if you still have your stock tank. Will be safest way for her , just watch her careful turtles are faster than you think and could get away. If she is retaining eggs it could very bad for her. Egg retention will cause all kind of problem’s and can be fatal. The other problems are all preventable with the help of a good habitat , nutrition and proper care. The photo of the shell tells a lot , please correct to her needs. Top header on this page as lots of good info please read all. Did you check her for eggs yourself , it’s easy.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ho ... ORM=VRDGAR

Still have Squirtle too ?
litefoot
 
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:04 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Consolidated photos and resized:
Image

Bottom left is the patch of "raw" skin from the tail. Possibly an abrasion?
The white spot in the center is hard.
The stuff on the right appear to be parts of egg shells and parts of the inner-membrane of the eggs.
The consolidated photo resides in this https://imgur.com/gallery/PzUOzPV

For now I will feed her early in the morning, and let her bask for an hour or two. After that I'll put her into the sand box for a couple of hours. Then some time in the afternoon I'll go to the store and buy Betadine and Curad silver - someone suggested to use something simpler first before using specialized Reptile skin spray.

Thank you for reading.
djronnieg
 
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:07 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

P.S.- Yes, the UVB bulb is probably more than a year old, it's time for a new one.
djronnieg
 
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:29 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Saw the sand in photo's , white spot being "hard" could be a mineral deposits. White distilled vinegar will remove it the first use "if" mineral.
Yes possibly an abrasion from something in tank. Do you have regular sand ? , silica sand is much better softer edges for a turtle.
The white spot on the shell looks more like corner edge of scute broke off exposing bone. My monitor shows a little depth to it.
Turtles normally bask 8-10 hours a day if offered.
Regular UVB's only produce usable rays for 5-6 months ! MV bulbs , good ones like Mega Rays produce good usable rays for 18 months making them cost less over time than buying several regular ones over the same usable life of a Mega Ray..
If egg shell , you must have high counts of tannic acid in your water to discolor them that fast. Still looks on my 5D monitor like piece of plastron...
Betadine is only a scrub to clean and try to get some silver sulphadinze to prevent any infection. But the old pits are from "bacteria" , working on your water parameter's will help more to prevent any more.
litefoot
 
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:38 am   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

The white spot looked "bony" to me as well but it's not very deep. Perhaps I was expecting the outer layer to be thicker .. perhaps it is under normal circumstances. In any case, I'm adjusting her diet as evidence indicates she needs it.

As for the sand, I have set aside a pair of boxes to use for nesting. One of them is an outer box to prevent escape, the inner box contains light colored sand from a ten pound bag which I had originally set aside for my tortoise. I may buy more sand at the pet store today. I thought about mixing it with soil but the soil I have has been sitting out back all winter and spring. So for now, the one bag of play sand which says "reptile sand" on the bag is inside of the nesting box. I just fed the girl so I'll allow her some time to digest and bask.

In a couple of hours I'll retrieve Paffie and place her into the newly assembled nesting box -- complete with a UVB-only light which I've barely used. It's one of the small straight fluorescent lights in a dome, and of course with no heat output. This'll prevent Paffie from getting too hot while she's separated from the tank. I'll leave her in the sand box for a couple of hours , then I'll go to the store and buy betadine and Curad silver. Someone told me to buy "Curad silver" on Reddit but I will also take you up on the suggestion to buy some Silver suphadinze. The way I see it, it'll take at least a couple of days for the Silver Suplhadinze to ship while I can buy in a store "Curad silver" today.


I wish a Lux meter didn't cost a over thousand dollars, but it's good to simply follow the rule of thumb and change out MVB lamps once a year. Of course, I didn't realize the UV output life of many bulbs could be as few as 5-6 months. I do have and have had other Mega Ray brand bulbs in the past; in fact I think Paffie has one but it's very likely pushing the 18-months if not beyond it. I've always had to monitor the position of MVB's; in the winter they don't put off enough heat to be useful but if you put 'em too close I risk giving Paffie dry skin on her head. So I've combined MVB at a safe distance with more closely placed sources of heat. Paffie's heat bulb burned out four weeks ago but it's been getting warmer out so the basking platform was getting hot enough to be fine - so I thought.

Anyway, I added a second mini-halogen dome directly over the dock and she's taking to it quite rapidly. So between increasing her diet and her religious fervor toward basking, I hope her recuperative powers kick in. Of course I will still order the Silver Suphadinze and while I wait for that to ship, the betadine/curad combo will be used.


As for the water, I'm super guilty for not having a filter for some weeks. I was doing more frequent water changes and manually taking out waste. Long story, I was getting an electrical current from my old filter... stuck my hand in the water and **jolt** right up my arm! Luckily the turtles were like "birds on a wire" -- not grounded. Still, this prompted me to be really anal about which filter to buy. I settled on a SunSun canister and plan to build a sump or implement a secondary filter for redundancy. That's the way I used to have it setup but I'm afraid of using my last filter brand so when one zapped and I couldn't isolate the issue I just stopped using that pair of canisters.


I suspect that water test will now will show good things since most of the water is freshly added. We'll see.. A hint of chlorine from the tap water can do good at times. I think you're right about the avidity of the water... I have no doubts it was; the "rotten egg" smell could have been a sign of that but I also suspect that the actual broken eggs played a role in making that smell. Either way, the PH should at a healthier level now and I think I should probably test it daily since I am running with a relatively new filter and all other things considered.


Apologies if my response is awfully long, I just wanted to show that I acknowledge everything you said since and re-state it for good measure to confirm that I will indeed follow-along. It means a lot.. and I want to thank you very much.


As for the possibility of "hard water", it's unlikely but I will analyze the spot more, maybe I'll shoot a photo with a macro lens. If it's bone, adjusting nutrition will hopefully help her to heal and grow a new layer of scutes. Since she did lose a lot of weight, I figure that maybe her body was diverting resources/nutrients to other things like laying eggs. If it is only "hard water", then I', wouldn't be too worried. Unfortunately (or fortunately) being in NY, the tap water here is very good in general and according to the DEP (city agency responsible for water) NYC tap water is "predominantly soft". Sometimes I add a minimal amount of conditioner to remove chlorine, but I usually don't. Depends if I'm starting a fresh tank from nothing.

I just had an idea... maybe the water became "hard" from poor maintenance on my end. Even if the "soft water" didn't actually turn into "hard water", the water quality wasn't at it's best. I was reacting more than being proactive with it. Like it it had a lot of particles in it, or if there was a scum on the surface -- but I was mostly doing 20% water changes even when I didn't have a filter running. I will never do without a filter again, barring power outages -- although I am in the market for a generator! Going forward from this scare, which is still playing out -- I will test pH levels daily while monitoring Paffie's health and continuing to treat her.


Thank you again, will keep posted either way-- hopefully with some corrective effort things will improve.


For other readers out there, I'm still open to hearing suggestions, reasons, or ideas regarding the "raw" skin on Paffie the Red-eared slider's tail.
djronnieg
 
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:57 am   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Coming on 6 decades in this hobby I found that they don’t like it too wet or dry in nesting box and most wont use a man made one so don’t go to crazy on one. Garden worked best for my girls. I found indoors or out door type with a little ( 5-15% vermiculite) added holds a nice steady moisture for them to dig.
UVB meter I use is about $250 : https://www.amazon.com/Solarmeter-Model ... &s=gateway
On my Mega Ray I supplement in winter with a heat bulb too. I have it on an approved dimmer so I can add one degree at a time. They make different wattage's so watch that if interested. Works for Piggleyand me.
Being no two tanks are the same due to different type rocks , decorations etc… Water changes will be different for all. Do you use the “nitrogen cycle” , If so don’t go much larger than your 20% changes or you will kill off your good bacteria and have to start all over.
I Had every type filter one could make ( all DIY the first 45 years) but today I use an FX6 because it has the easiest and largest media area. I also set it up with 80% bio media which always holds my cycle on 125 gallons of water. The best part only clean filter once every two months , could go longer if needed but I go every 2 months. Still do my bi weekly water changes to hold the cycle. The nitrogen cycle breaks down all to dissolved waste so filter can hold it without clogging up as with some filters. When a filter can do that well the day before you clean tank/filter the water will still be clean. All that good bacteria doing it's job. As you know we all just love doing maintenance. If you use bio media , use the old media from old filter in new filter to help seed the tank better.
RES Trutles are very hardy I don’t even test for ph , just know whats needed after all this time. I only test for nitrates now which tells me what percentage water change I need for Piggley. In my setup with all that bio media its only about 15% the most.

You have a good plan , happy to try and offer some help/advice , maybe Steve will come in on some ideas too.
Keep us posted , pictures too on the setup.
litefoot
 
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:33 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Hey litefoot, with the meter, how long are your Meg Rays lasting before you swap it out?

Djronnieg, if you want a meter, check out used ones too, you can save a lot of money on something that is used a handful times a year. I have the same one as litefoot. If I recall, some tables at reptile shows will measure your bulb but that's probably not a reliable or convenient way to do it. Make sure ALL your gear is plugged into a GFCI outlet. If you do not have one or are not allowed to install one, they sell GFCI adaptors... only bad thing is that they trip with a power outage.

For the tail, not sure what it is... if fungus, then keeping it dry will do wonders. Maybe dab with betadine, then dry dock overnight.

On the shell, I agree that is bone. Ideally, here's what should happen... bone comes off (its very thin layer), exposes some pinkish flesh and a little blood. This area will scab/scar up (it will be dark grey/black) and should be fine. If the boney area increases, then there might be an infection in which case I would have a vet look it over.
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:38 pm   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Steve almost missed your question.
The 100watt I have now is doing great . Cleaned my filter Sunday and saw a reminder note to buy another. I just ordered one because the bulb now is going 17 months . That's without having to lower it at all , Great one this time. It’s set at 16” for Piggley. Still putting out like new. Another one I had to lower it down to 14” . replaced it at 13 months. It could go down to 12" but not for me ( safety) with Piggley , he may try to unscrew it. The mega ray still at worst produces 80-85% usable ray ‘s to the end which is much greater than any other. Still cheaper using them than buying a couple of the others for the length of life on mega ray. What ever the problem was years ago has been corrected. Saw some articles back then on what was wrong but that’s over. These improved one’s are so much better and last .

djronnieg , some female just get an itch in that area and used her feet to scratch the itch away. Some get area raw , still treat so she feels more comfortable and prevent infection.
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:38 am   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Thanks for the update. Glad to know how well it's doing after all this time. Would be nice to have more options, but I'm glad they've done a good job with them.
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:35 am   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

Paffie is currently dry docked for the moment, I cleaned her tail with Betadine upon waking up and applied Curad Silver gel. A bit of Bag Balm lobbed on top as a moisture barrier -- though I'm likely to adjust this routine. For one I'm looking to order silver sulfadiazine cream in some form.

I'm gonna toss her back into the drink before I heard to work shortly, feed her and let remain undisturbed for the next nine hours or so.

Below I'm including a picture of Paffie's tail and shell. Below that a video of the setup at varying angles.

[img]silver%20sulfadiazine[/img]
Paffie's tail and Shell


Paffie and Squirtle's setup: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mpMvyYGdNfRwjByW6

The video link in the above line is a shared album on Google Photos. If I wasn't getting ready for work I would have made a more well-polished video, some still photos within and music. This video should be sufficient for diagnostic purposes, the only part you can't really see well are the smooth rocks and pieces of slate on the floor of the tank. The metal mesh material shouldn't have any sharp edges on it, though I will triple check that again when I put Paffie back in the tank and will let y'all know if I notice anything obvious. The reason there is egg crate and metal grid up top is because Paffie is one helluva escape artist. Squirtle does not have a fully-encompassing fence because she only ever succeeds to escape from the front, hence the slap of formica table which I have leaning up there. Yes, it has proven to be enough. Paffie on the other hand, is fully surrounded by fencing but that wasn't enough. The wooden gate was hastily zip-tied up top almost two months ago because Paffie was climbing and standing on the top-most flat surface of egg-crate. She was still pulling it off until I added that piece of cardboard. Since then, she has not made it over the wall to Swuirtle's side nor has she gotten out of the enclosure.

Thank you, I will more thoroughly review the responses which I am most grateful for. I'm submitting this response hastily because of work but I want to make sure those you all had a good opportunity to view and critique the setup.
djronnieg
 
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:58 am   Re: Raw patch of skin on tail, eggs laid in water.

My opinion , use a different material to separate them and if you must check very careful and not that type wire either. A vertical wire fencing or material can not be climbed on. Also several other items needed to be more turtle friendly. Turtle are great climbers !!! Just google for videos. "Don' t have anything that can be used as a ladder." Turtles are smart and will find a way to use that kind of material or get hurt trying. Plex glass is cheap and smooth , can not climb on. A cheap large tote at the dollar store can be cut for use , it would be smooth too.
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