Habitat - Indoor :: Presence of Ammonia

[stormtrooper]

Hello everyone,

My question relates to ammonia. I have been told that as my tank is a 20 gallon one with an internal filter, that ammonia is pretty much always going to be present, especially since I feed him in there. I have been told that my tank can never be ammonia free, but what I need to do is to try to minimise the level of it. So I do regular partial water changes every second day.

Can someone confirm that this was correct advice. I often do ammonia tests and the results always indicate the presence of ammonia, most often the second lowest level of ammonia.

Most importantly, if ammonia will always be present, is this safe for my turtle? Even at the second lowest levels as indicated on the test chart?

Thank you.

PSL: Marisa and Steve, I just wanted to let you know that Gamera has well and truly recovered from the bout of RI I described in the Urgent Care thread last week. However, as you said, I'm aware that he might not be truly over it, so I am keeping a close watch on him as it could just be the symptoms disappearing and not the RI completely. I have left the water temp at 82F - at least for another few days to make sure. In case you're wondering about the vet I went to, it was an absolute joke. He said Gamera was too small for him to inject with anything (I'm ok with that as I have read that somewhere), however, he didnt prescribe anything, even oral antibiotics. I just dont think the guy knew anything about turtles (which is the response I got from a dozen other vets I rang). I am however glad that Gamera's symptoms have gone and he is eating superbly once again.

[steve]

Are you using bio media with your filter? Ammonia (harmful) can be broken down into nitrites (still harmful), then into nitrates (safer). Once beneficial bacteria has colonized on the bio media, you should not need to rely on constant water changes (once a week or twice a month partial changes are good). How many PPM is indicated on the 2nd level of your chart?

[CountryGirl68]

(Note: my comments are based on experience with fish, not turtle).

How long have you had the tank set up? A new tank can take about 4 weeks to cycle. Cycling a tank means you are allowing the beneficial bacteria to grow. This bacteria does what Steve mentioned in the above post: breaks ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates.

If the tank has cycled for several weeks, ammonia levels should not be detectable. I don't know if it would help with a new turt tank (someone else might know), but adding 1/8 tsp of store bought bacteria to the water for about 2 to 3 days will help develop this bacteria and regulate your tank. Also, make sure the ammonia test kit has not expired (there should be a date on it) and that you are keeping the chemical at room temperature, away from sunlight and ACs.

I do not recommend using any ammonia "locking" chemicals for new tank set ups as this stunts the growth of beneficial bacteria. If it is a new tank set up, make sure the turt's poop is being cleaned out by the filter and that there isn't any food spoiling in the tank. Both of these can increase the ammonia levels in tanks.

(Again, this is only from my experience with fish tanks.)

Hope this helps.

[stormtrooper]

Thank you both.

I do not currently use any biomedia with my filter. Can I? I was under the impression that bio media could only be used with external canister filters. My filter is an internal one (Eheim 2008).

The last time I did a complete water change was 2 weeks ago. Since then, I have been doing regular partial water changes every second day. As you have advised, I will wait to see whether the cycle establishes itself in another couple of weeks.

Countrygirl. if I do get the store-bought bacteria (conditioner?) as you mention, will it quicken the cycle process? And will this mean I do not need to wait for the water to cycle? Also, what do you mean by ammonia lock chemicals?

Sorry for all the questions and thank you again.

[steve]

There doesn't seem to be much room to add any in a 2008, however there will be some beneficial bacteria on the foam inserts. A canister or a power filter like an aquaclear 110 can readily take bio media. Ammo lock is a product that supposedly converts ammonia to a non-toxic form (but does not remove it). The store-bought bacteria is beneficial bacteria in concentrated form to jump start the nitrogen cycle... though I would skip it.

[marisa]

Internal filters don't really have room for biomedia. I don't know how big your sponges are, but if they're like the Fluval Plus series (also an internal filter), they're not really adequate to have any meaningful amount of benefecial bacteria colonizing on them. Have you thought about getting another filter (preferably a good canister?).

You can jump-start the growth of beneficial bacteria with products like Cycle and Biotex (not sure if this is the correct name, I have it but not with me at the moment). You should have biomedia in the filter for this, although beneficial bacteria will colonize on any surface in the tank to some extent.

I wouldn't use a product like Ammolock. It does absorb ammonia, but at some point will become saturated and will actually start releasing ammonia back into the water.

[stormtrooper]

Hi Marisa,

I have a canister filter at my disposal if needed (from uncle), however I was told that my 20gallon tank is too small to install canister-based filters. Is that correct?

Also, the suction caps for my filter and water heater have yucky gunk on them. I have not cleaned them as I remember from my days keeping axolotls that it creates beneficial bacteria. This is the colonization you are referring to, right?

In terms of jumpstarting bacteria growth, I know they sell "conditioner", however, can I still use that if I'm not doing a total water change? I thought they were used for 100% water changes (eg: with new tanks).

Thanks again for your help.

ps: I cant describe how happy I am that Gamera seems to be over the worse. He is showing absolutely no RI symptoms anymore.

[CountryGirl68]

Countrygirl. if I do get the store-bought bacteria (conditioner?) as you mention, will it quicken the cycle process? And will this mean I do not need to wait for the water to cycle? Also, what do you mean by ammonia lock chemicals?

Store bought bacteria is not a conditioner - it is actual bacteria. The container will say it is bacteria. Some water conditioners have added bacteria. I prefer to use Biozyme, which is teenie granuals of bacteria without anything else. If you get the store bought bacteria (either with the conditioner or not), you are actually adding the bacteria to the water, so yes, it will quicken the cycle process. But you will still have to give the tank time to cycle, though it will be less time than if you didn't add the bacteria. Let me remind you, with a new tank set up that hasn't cycled for at least 2 to 4 weeks, you will find some ammonia levels in the water because the bacteria that controls this isn't yet present. But you must keep an eye that the levels don't increase. Water changes will help keep the levels down until the bacteria has had time to develop.

Ammonia locking chemicals are chemicals that say they will "lock" or remove ammonia from the water. However, as I previously mentioned, these chemicals do more harm than good because they can stop the growth of the bacteria the tank needs.

[marisa]

Stormtrooper, I think it would depend on the model of canister filter (what is it?). Beneficial bacteria are, I think, invisible, so I'm not sure what the yucky gunk that you're referring to is. The caps could just be in need of a cleaning. I clean my filter's tubing when it gets really bad. Objects with a lot of surface area (like biomedia such as ceramic rings) encourage the colonization of beneficial bacteria.

My correction--- Biotex is the incorrect name of the product. It's Biozyme that I have as well. It's actual bacteria and is good in that as long as it's kept dry, it has an indefinite shelf life.