Habitat - Indoor :: New Turtle Tank

[C.J.H.]

Hello everyone. This is going to be lengthy post full of information and questions so I want to apologize in advance. Basically, before I even think of buying my first turtle I want to be sure that I am setup and equipped to care for it over its entire lifespan. With that being said my goal is to keep 2-4 turtles in a tank with fish and plants. I understand that the turtles may and probably will consume both and the plan is to keep smaller inexpensive fish as the tank will be designed for the turtles and the fish are additional decorations.

I am planning on building my own tank such that I can customize it for my turtles needs. I would like to have a variety of turtles if possible and was looking at RES, Map turtles and/or painted turtles. My current plan is to build a 72 inch by 36 inch by 42 inch tank. If I keep the water level at 24 inches high this will give me approximately 270 gallons. For basking areas I planned on having 12 inch by 36 inch sheets of glass on both sides of the tank with ramps down to the water. I would put the basking areas approximately 1 inch above the water giving me 7 inchs of clearance to the top of the tank. Will this be sufficint basking area? or should I do a third island in the middle or a free floating basking spot?

My next question is filtration. I was going to get two Fluval FX5 canister filters rated at 400 gallons each. Will this be enough? I know the amount of fish I have will also effect this so I will list what I plan on having. Keep in mind that the max size of any of these is 3-4 inches and according to my fishkeeping experience would require less than half of the tank to maintain in a healthy and peacful environment:

10 neon tetras
10 glowlight tetras
10 zebra danios
10 harlequin rasboras
8 red cherry shrimp
6 ramshorn snails
6 trumpet snails
4 emerald green cory cats
4 false julii cory cats
10 otocinclu vestitus
12 ghost shrimp
8 five band barbs

Roughly half of these are great at finding and eating leftover food and algae so they are more of a cleanup crew than just decoration. I also understand that they still all create a bioload so having enough filtration is a must. If I need more filtration I will get it.

I understand that like all animals turtles need special lighting and heat. I am not sure as to what water and basking temperatures the turtles will need so I am a little in the dark as to what lighting I need. All of the fish listed above will do well in basic aquariums or in higher light situations so whatever I need to do for the turtles will be fine. So with that being said what do you recommend? I will have digital thermoters in the two main basking spots as well as in the water to maintain the ecosystem as constant as possible.

Because I plain on planting the aquarium I will need a substrate. The plants I have chosen are not very picky but do need something somewhat small ( as well as the cory cats). So what can I use as a substrate that won't negatively impact my turtles? Would pea sized gravel be too small?

My next question is about tank current. Do aquatic turtles need a current in the tank to be happy? I am under the impression that the Fluval filters will provide some but will be enough or too much?

Finally I need to know if any of the plants I have chosen can be toxic to turtles. The plants I would like to use are:

Java Fern
Java Moss
Anacharis
Anubias
Christmas Moss

Again, I have no idea how any of these might impact turtles. I understand the turtles may dig them up and destroy them and am willing to deal with that if/when it happens. I just need to know if they would harm the turtles if ingested.

So, if you have read all of that and are not sufficiently aggravated with me, I would value any input I can get. I am not in a hurry to get this project started as I understand that proper planning now will help reduce future problems. My plan is to get the tank built and cycled for the fish and then add the fish and plants slowly until all of them are in the tank and existing happily. After this I would add the turtles. I don't know if I shoud add all of them at the same time to keep the all approximately the same age or add them in groups. Any advice would be great on this.

My end goal is to have happy and thriving turtles and hopefully some fish as well. I am very open to comments and criticisms to my plan as I have never done this before. Thanks for all of your help.

[AlexisAwesome]

The lighting area is fine but I never experienced with Fluval filter you are going to use. Keep in mind that turtle will do anything to take food from each other. A current not needed but it will help the turtles become strong swimmers and it will make them happy. Lighting must be strong enough to keep them in good condition. What I use is a 13 watt. Sense you are going to have a big setup, I would use something better. No gravel recommended, but very small will be fine (I THINK)!

[devilduck]

That's going to be a really nice setup. My suggestion would be to go with at most 2 turtles and something of the smaller mud or musk turtle variety. This will give them space to get away from one another and form their own territories. It will also increase the survival of the fish in the tank. I would nix the cories, I doubt they will survive and replace some of the tetras with live bearing fish like guppies.

[AlexisAwesome]

That's going to be a really nice setup. My suggestion would be to go with at most 2 turtles and something of the smaller mud or musk turtle variety. This will give them space to get away from one another and form their own territories. It will also increase the survival of the fish in the tank. I would nix the cories, I doubt they will survive and replace some of the tetras with live bearing fish like guppies.

Musk turtles need different lighting and they don't need as much water then RES do, but this problem can be easy to fix, but it would cost more money. You can put mud turtles with the ones you have listed.

[ljapa]

I'd also ditch the trumpet snails. Their shells are too hard for a turtle to crush and could cause a danger if swallowed whole.

My son's RES would destroy any anacharis in short order because she loves it. It's very healthy for turtles because it has a higher calcium content than many plants.

I read here that anubias is another good plant for feeding turtles. I've also read that they will not eat the java moss or Christmas moss.

Sounds like a great tank!

[C.J.H.]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Can anyone give me some specifics on lighting in the basking areas? I am at a complete loss on where to even begin looking in to how to do that. And also what the compatibilities of the species I have listed? I would be fine doing 2 trutles in the tank but are 2 of those more friendly than others?

[AlexisAwesome]

Yeah, they will go fine with each other. I think a 230 or 212 watt light sense this setup is going to be huge.

[ljapa]

I'm assuming you have read the lighting info at

http://www.redearslider.com/index_lighting_basking.html

You definitely want UVB and heat. The rec is a basking temp at least 10 warmer than the water. Anywhere from 90 to the low hundreds should work. You'll want to be able to raise/lower the light to adjust the temp.

On substrate, pea gravel is not good. Some turtles eat it and there is a risk of a an intestinal blockage. For a substrate, many use sand.

[steve]

Keep in mind that males will likely have to be separated, so even the best planning will need to take that into consideration.

[C.J.H.]

Devil, I have read that and understand they will need heat and UV rays, but was looking for advice on specific fixtures and bulbs. Being very new to this I have read a lot of mixed reviews about products and am still on the fence on the best way to provide the necessities to my friends. I have heard good reviews about mercury vapor bulbs that can provide heat and light and may end up getting a set of those, but wanted some input from you guys with experience.

Steve, I am aware that sperating the turtles may be necessary regardless of sex and species chosen. I was considering doing an all female tank as I hear they are usually less agressive to each other, but still know they may have issues. I do have a back up tank that can be converted to a turtle tank in a pinch if I need it to be. Although my original post stated 2-4 turtles I think I am leaning to only have 2. I think that with only two they could both have very large basking spots and plenty of swimming space. Once again, I understand this is not a fail safe option, but I know I can relocate on turtle. More than that and I may not have the resources to take care of them.

Thanks again for all of your advice. I'm trying to ensure a happy life for my future little green friends.

[devilduck]

Personally, I use two lamps, a standard basking lamp for heat and a CFL UVB lamp. I've had bad experiences with the all in one mercury vapor lamps. Sometimes they don't last long and are very expensive to replace.

I think that RES are the least friendly in terms of a nicely laid out tank with plants and fish with indoor enclosures. RES in a good sized pond with large fish is a different story.

[C.J.H.]

Devil do those lamps clip to the tank side? or can they be put in a hood? Also how close do you have them to your basking area? That's good info to have about the MVB's as I don't want unreliable equipment. Also, from what I have read the RES can be very terratorial so I think I will pull them off the list. I just need to research how map and painted turtles get along. And worst case scenario I will just get a couple of maps. Do any of you gys have females and if so do you have "clutch areas" for them? I was reading that these may be necessary even in all female communities as the turtles may still lay eggs despite the presence of a male. Just curious if I should add one to my plan and if so what it should look like. Thanks again for the help.

[devilduck]

I have them in hardware store clamp lights. The basking lamp produces a lot of heat, make sure you have a ceramic bulb holder for those.
I have my lamps about 5-6 inches over the basking area. This is a ZooMed UVB 5.0 and a 50w basking lamp. If you need to hang them higher you'll need higher wattage lamps. Your aiming to get about 90 degrees at the basking area.

[steve]

I would consider a uvb tube since you can have it over a large basking area. A CFL is great and can be used in any clamp light like devilduck mentioned.

I'm not sure I get the basking area you're describing. You really don't need a large ramp for most turtles.

[C.J.H.]

Steve,

The basking areas will each be on one side of the aquarium. So as you look at the aquarium from the top there will be one on the right and one on the left. Each basking platform will be 35.5" inches x 12 inches, so it will cover the entire distance from the front of the tank to the back and go 12 inches towards the center. Both platforms will be approximately 1 inch above the water level. I was thinking that this should be more than enough room for turtles to pick their best spot for basking.