Habitat - Indoor :: How hot can the basking area get?

[flutterby]

Are you sure about this? I've always though that turtlekeepers try to replicate a turtle's native habitat as much as possible. With aquatics that has to be done with equipment like filters, etc., and it can be a poor substitute if not done correctly.

Am I sure? Pretty much positive. My brother graduated from Penn State University with a degree in Wildlife/Fisheries. He even said that our turtles are spoiled and would NEVER have it this good in the wild.

Replicate? When was the last time you actually saw crystal clear water in a pond? What does a turtle do when its 90 some degree's outside and they bask on a 100+ degree rock?

I'm a firm believer that everything with captive animals is trial and error. Just because it works for your turtles and their personalities is no guarantee it will work for the next persons. Doesn't mean you're wrong, doesn't mean I'm wrong, its just an opinion, something for someone else to try to see if it works for them.

Just my thoughts.....

[jenaero]

That's what I'm thinking. My turt's water is looking kind of green right now but I know they can wait another day because it's still better than the water around here that they're found in.

[steve]

My turts like a temperature of around 85-95. If it is around 95, I'll adjust it so it doesn't become any warmer. Although, if the ambient temps are above 90, I don't have the heat lamp on. They will still bask, but not for long periods and the heat lamp is not kept on at night. At first, my turts did not use their new basking area for awhile. Once they figured out there was heat up there, they would then go up there regularly. Now, they go up there even if the heat is not on and the air temp is slightly higher than the water temp.

I have never observed wild RES, I've only seen them once - in an artificial lake in Flushing Meadows, so I cannot gauge their preference. RES geographically originated from the area around the Mississippi River down to the Gulf of Mexico, so we know they naturally experience a wide range temps. So it is still up for debate, however we cannot rely on them not to bask at 95+ temps. If they had a choice, my turts bask at 95+ temps. They would also eat endless amounts of shrimp if it were offered.

I'm not sure where the discussion is about replicating habitats. Do wild turts have it better than captives? Captives are spoiled in some manners but at the expense of having no freedom and becoming totally dependent on their keepers - and that doesn't equate to a better life. For wild turts, the sun is their heater, their uvb source, the water is not stagnant and it gets replenished (would you drink water from your tank or a pond?). Their instincts guide them and we should do our best to provide them with what we understand they need and not what they prefer. I think trial and error is what we all go through here, but there are guidelines and recommendations that should limit the error part.

Moving on, marble is not a good stone to use with RES. Marble and limestone can increase pH levels and harden water. And it is a good idea to have a textured basking area (I used epoxy to bind broken pieces of ceramic tile together). Slate is an excellent stone to use, just be careful of the sharp edges and inspect them for strength.

[marisa]

Well put, Steve.

Flutterby, I certainly agree that everyone has the right to their own opinions, and here are a few of mind (along with some answers to the questions you asked).

The last time I saw crystal clear water? That would be this morning when I went to a brook near the house to see if there where any turtles that were going to cross the road. The brook flows into a pond, which, the last time I looked was clear. It does have a sandy bottom, though, and will become cloudy/dirty if disturbed. As Steve said, the water is moving, not being recycled as it would be in a tank, and actually is cleaner. I don't know how dirty/polluted the water is where you are, but when I talked about replicating the natural habitat/environment as much as possible, I certainly didn't mean to use that as a standard.

I don't think a turtle is inclined to bask if the air is still, the air temp is 90+ and the basking rock is 100+ (there are exceptions to everything). I've seen this with my RES today; as the day wore on and the temp rose, his basking time because shorter until he went under his corkbark for shade. If you go looking for turtles in the heat of the day, you're much less likely to see any. Why? Simply because the temp is too hot. They'll do their basking earlier or later in the day when the temp is more agreeable.

And I do believe in replicating/imitating/copying the natural habitat as much as possible. In spite of being captive bred, a turtle isn't a domesticated animal. It remains wild with essentially the same requirements as those of its wild counterpart--sun/light, warmth, clean water and basking area if an aquatic, etc. As Steve said, however, being captive, turtles depend on us as keepers to meet those needs as best we can, and we do this with equipment and whatever else it takes to do so. And where does a good portion of the knowledge to do this come from if not from observation/study of turtles in the wild?

I disagree with your comment that "it comes down to the fact that each turtle is an individual with individual needs and wants." To be sure, turtles have their preferences--one likes guppies, another likes minnows, for example. One likes to bask at a temp in the 80's, another a bit higher, and so on. Within certain parameters, experimentation can be good and may be necessary. But I think this can be taken too far. If a turtle loved to eat spinach and you knew it was a bad food to give, would you do so even if the turtle preferred this food to all others?

Turtles operate on instinct, and members of a species are more alike than unique. This is why there are care sheets/guidelines for different species. If each turtle was so unique, caring for it would indeed become "trial and error," possibly to the turtle's detriment.

The original question on this thread was in regard, I think, to a turtle not basking because the temp was so high. My suggestion was to lower it. I'm not sure where all this other stuff came from...

And I have to once again take issue with your comment that started this whole discussion--regarding turtles, you said "most are bred in captivity, making their environmental needs completely different from a wild turtle." I asked you if you were sure about this, and you replied that you were "pretty much positive." I'd simply like to know your opinion as to what these completely different environmental needs are...

[STRAYKINGFISHER]

My brother graduated from Penn State University with a degree in Wildlife/Fisheries. He even said that our turtles are spoiled and would NEVER have it this good in the wild.

Turtles in the wild are more resistant to most problems that captive turtles are faced with such as RI for the simple reason that since their temps. are not constant, their bodies get used to the changes and can adapt to them, in a tank where the temps. are pretty much constant, any change will mess up their system. As for the cleanliness, in a natural healthy environment, there is a symbiotic relationship between the inhabitants of the pond, river or lake that take up roles that benefit each other, for example, the water plants provide oxygen for the fish and other aquatic animals in the water that the turtles will eat such as fish and snails etc., the turtle droppings will disolve into the water that is taken as nutrients by the plants, snails and fish will eat up whatever the turtle drops while eating. etc., etc..

Have you ever seen a turtle with hairy algae on its shell, it serves a purpose, the algae provides the turtle with camoflauge while the algae gets a ride to other feeding areas. if it were to be on a rock, it would be dependant on what the water flow brings its way.

Every one thing depends on another. In an aquarium environment, those relationships are not present, you have to provide them, therefore you become their source of food, heat, and filtration. You take up the jobs that would've been done by other animals in the wild. It is our job, as providers, to make our setups as close to thier natural environment as we can, doing research on the animal you are planning to get or have gotten, is a very good step, that way you know what the turtle's needs are and you can begin to make its habitat as good as it needs.

[lydia_lady_fla]

speaking of in the wild wow some pretty turts in the kentucky area. we all went on a 3 mile hike to a hidden water fall, along the way we saw pretty turts sunning I picked one little guy up and after closer inspection he had a front leg missing it had already completly healed very neat and clean like a vet had helped him out,nature sure will suprize you if you let it hey?
these were by the way land turtles, kinda boxy with brown and bright yellow shells, some of ems shell were more reddish with the yellow marks?

[STRAYKINGFISHER]

I don't suppose you took some pictures of it did you ?

[lydia_lady_fla]

nope no pictures, it was a very bumpy 3 mile hike in which we had to cross 5 times a very swift running creek.....plus it was raining (with an occasional snap crackle pop from the sky)we were all drenched before we got to the water fall, saw a few turtles once the sun came out and 1 copperhead but I have to say that hike was one of the best parts of our vacation, we spent 7 days in gatlinburg and pigeonforge great smoky mountains, we sky lifted camped at the koa it flooded lol mechanical bull riding the guys all did the white water rafting on the ocoee, paddle or perish. then we went to kentucky and stayed 3 days with relatives, there was the hike what fun! we picked up our little pygmy goat and came home, so now I have 7 pygmies the latest one is a male and will make pretty babies in a few months. his name is Moses.