Habitat - Outdoor :: He was here...and now gone...

[mchookem]

Hello...newcomer here with a sad story to share...will try my best to give a short version...

- friend bought daughter a RES, "Spot", from a vendor at a Chinese streetfair in SoCal a few months ago, maybe 2 inches head-to-toe. (I can hear you groaning...obviously, I see reading here that the sale of this little fella was illegal...grrrrrr >:( )

- "Spot" lived in this tiny plastic box w/ flourescent gravel and a small rock to climb on. Just...ICK.

- Friend moved from SoCal back to TX recently..."Spot" moved with them.

- We have a screened in atrium/patio area w/ a small fishpond in our backyard. Have about 10 mid-sized goldfish (3-6 inches). Aquatic plants, gravel/rock bottom, filter w/ a waterfall feature - fish are fat and happy.

- Friend brought "Spot" over this past weekend to 'set him free' in pond. I ensured he had large rocks for basking area and food. (My main concern, in all honesty, was getting him out of his disgusting little stinky plastic environment )

- Saturday/Sunday/Monday morning..."Spot" seemed...thrilled. As much as a turtle can seem thrilled, of course. Swimming all over, eating like crazy (fish food, pellets, plant matter), checking out pond, climbing on his rocks...neither he nor the fish seemed bothered.

I knew he'd get bigger and perhaps threaten the fish, but w/ their comparitive sizes now, neither could threaten the other - fish would bump him sometimes while feeding, and he'd just bob out of the way and swim off. We really thought this was going to work until he outgrew it (at which time we'd transport him to my father's much larger pond in East Texas), and had to be better than a plastic box, right??

ANYway...yesterday evening...he disappeared, and we have not seen him since.

Predators - not possible - the entire porch area is completely enclosed, protected from birds, possums, etc.

No way the fish could have 'gotten' him - their mouths aren't big enough! besides...I assume we'd find a body if he had just died!

That leaves...he climbed out. Which, given his size and the set-up...seems so very unlikely...but then, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth, right?

It would have required either:
a) precarious balance on a thin hose from the pump, suspended above water, then pulling entire body about 2 inches over a ledge...
b) practically verticle climbing up some driftwood, through a waterfall, back down some large, uneven terrain...or
c) climbing some plant stalks maybe??

If he got out? NO WAY he'll be able to get back in - this is a raised pond, if he's out no way to climb back up there.

So...presumably, he's now 'lost' somewhere inside our atrium...which is about 100 sq. feet and absolutely full from one side to another w/ all kinds of vegetation and ground cover. He would have no way to get out of this enclosed area.

How long can he survive in there, outside of the water?? It gets very warm out there (this is central TX), but assuming he's on the ground, he'll have access to endless soil. I put out two very low bowls of water this morning in opposing corners so he could get to them if he's out there - they can smell water, right??

I am sad and worried...if I could find him, I'd try something else, take him out to the lake or something...I'd not even had time to do all the research on his food needs and such before he disappeared...

I guess I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions for tracking him down...if I just try and build some kind of access back to the pond, will he find it? how long can he live outside of complete water submersion? do i need to worry about him finding enough to eat while he's out there? if we can't find him...what are the chances we'll simply find a big ol' turtle rustling around in there 6 months from now??

Any advice, suggestions, etc. would be appreciated. And I'm sure I deserve a lecture as well...but if you'd seen his previous accomodations, I swear you'd understand my motivation :\

Thanks in advance for anything.

[Jessica313]

i think what you did for spot was very nice.. as far as escaping goes.. you would be very surprized what a turtle is capable.. my turtle managed to climp out of his tank one day and made it off the table his tank is on down to the ground about 5 feet and i lter found him under my bed.. completly unharmed..
i dont have too much advice as for what u can do, but hopefully someone else does!!
are you POSITIVE hes not still in there somehwere? turtles can be good hiders!!

[mchookem]

good news!

I can't believe I worried about this all morning...

Went home for lunch...and there he is sitting in one of the bowls of water I put out this morning!!

Dang, that was a good idea!

Um...well...I'd still appreciate any comments/suggestions in general...I plopped him back in, and he totally started swimming, swimming, eating...climbing on his rock and sliding off the other side...climbing and sliding...climbing and sliding (reminds me of a little kid jumping off the side of a swimming pool over and over!

I took the piece of driftwood out that he might have climbed (vertically!)...and I moved the pump hose so it's mostly submerged now (and farther from the edge)...I can't really do anything about the plants at the moment, so if he escaped via climbing their stalks...well...I'll leave the shallow low bowls of water out until this weekend when we can re-arrange the pond and see if we can make it more 'Spot-proof'. heh.

Obviously...he's proven he can get out, survive 24 hours, and show back up on his own...so I'm less worried now!

[jenaero]

Glad to hear he's ok!

[mchookem]

alright...well...now that he's back (and my husband thinks he is so cool, chilling out in there w/ the fish)...i've been doing research and reading this forum, and we're gonna work this weekend on getting the whole joint set up nicely...maybe he won't want to leave anymore

anyhoo...gonna start w/ getting the aquatic soil out of there - it's for the plants, but it's almost like really, really fine gravel.

Any ideas on what else we can use for aquatic soil??

also...i see this fella eats veggies, so he gets some carrots tonight in addition to the fish pellets! Seriously...I know there are turtle pellets as well, but this was spur of the moment and the dude was going nuts eating the fish food - it's only been two days!

I imagine I'll be visiting this forum a lot - very informative, glad I found it.

And when this sucker gets too big and starts snapping at my fish...time to build another pond...or cart him off to live w/ the east Texas rednecks!!!

[missibsu]

Even if you throw in veggies and supply him with his own turtle pellets, he's likely to go for the fish pellets. I have to break my fish flakes up really small because mine eat those.

Also, the fish, regardless of size can be eaten. If the fish are much larger now, it could mean a slow painful death, one chunk at a time. Just fair warning! I tried a pleco in with my turts and they were trying to take nips at him...he was twice as big. I didn't have the heart to leave him in there.

[steve]

Glad you found him. How big is your fishpond and do you have any pics? What are you doing for filtration, heating and lighting?

[mchookem]

Thanks for the comments...

The pond is not that big...about 70 gal. Simple filter/pump - pond was just built for some goldfish (not even koi!) - has a waterfall return. Heating and lighting...we've done nothing extra - patio area is enclosed in thick plastic siding in the winter, water temp rarely drops below 55 or so, if it does, fish go dormant and we just don't feed. Right now? It's approaching 100 outside, our pool is at 84...so I'm assuming the pond temp is about the same, although I haven't checked specifically yet...

So, um...yeah, did I mention this was a sudden thing, and my main concern was getting him out of the 'lagoon of death' or whatever y'all were calling that plastic dungeon thing? gawd, it was awful.

There's also a shade/cover over this area - sunlight gets through, but it's filtered (kind of like a screen/burlap material - lets rain through).

Chemicals are a minimum - I check for nitrates/nitrites, ph/alk., etc. - exchange water regularly, clean filter, etc...basically, a goldfish pond was a simple thing to do...

Now...Spot's here. My perspective has changed. I'll be working on it PDQ!!!

[mchookem]

OH...and even though the fish are like 3 times his size right now...he can still kill them?? crap!

Alright. It took me a while to get it right...we'll be having none of that!

[missibsu]

Anything that goes in the tank, pond, or other set up has the potential of becoming food. That being said, some people have had luck with fish surviving with their turts for many months and then coming home to no more fish. Just because all looks good now, doesn't mean that two weeks or two months from now will be the same story. Good luck!

[marisa]

I knew he'd still be in there. They can be so good at hiding themselves. (But eventually he'll want to explore more than that rather small pond, so it would be good to build an enclosure around it so he can't roam.

[reptilegrrl]

I am glad you found him! They are amazing escape artists, and also amazing hiders

For aquatic soil: have you thought of using fabric plant baskets? They are basically a net bag, you put the soil and the plant in the bag and pull the drawstring closed. You can also use moss.

However, he will eat any aquatic plants you have- if you are very attached to them, you might want to raise them up out of the water a bit, so the leaves don't trail in.

I think it's so wonderful that you rescued him and want to accomodate him!

[fric]

I have about a dozen feeder goldfish in my pond that have grown over the years and some are as long as 6". The two turtles I have now are both about 4" long and live with them in perfect harmony and can't catch them even if they try.
With a 20" planter holding an umbrella palm for shade, a filter, and a cement block that serves as a base for basking, there are enough escape routes for the fish to survive.
In fact, at feeding time these fish are more aggressive then the turtles are and will run over them to get their food.
My old turtle fric chased his fish all day everyday and he was fast! I would see bites in the fishes fins and tails occasionally, but rarely if ever did he get one. I figured it was a good means of exercise for him as well as the fish seem to help keep the pond clean ... fric

[reptilegrrl]

Thank you for that info, Fric. I want to put a few large fish in with Al, but I want them to survive. I was thinking of putting a big PVC pipe on the floor of the pond, too small for him but big enough for fish.