Equipment Review and Discussion

You don't want to use overflows or any surface skimming in a turtle tank. Turtle waste sinks to the bottom where an overflow setup will not help. For freshwater, you really want to stick with a large canister where the intake can be placed low in the water column.

VeipaCray wrote:You don't want to use overflows or any surface skimming in a turtle tank. Turtle waste sinks to the bottom where an overflow setup will not help. For freshwater, you really want to stick with a large canister where the intake can be placed low in the water column.

I think there might be some mis-information there. As long as the return (to the sump) is at the bottom of the display tank there shouldn't be any issue using sumps.

No mis-information I'm quite famililar with overflows and sumps, I've had one for the better part of the last 15 years and have designed and built many more.

It doesn't matter where the hole going to the sump is located, you still need an overflow surrounding the hole (surface skimming) and a standpipe. Your not pulling water from the bottom of the tank. And you can't have just a hole at the bottom of a tank with a bulkhead and plumbing attached. That would be idiotic. If you had a setup like that and lost power the display tank would drain via a gravity fed siphon until the entire display tank was empty enough to allow air into the hole at the bottom of the tank.

If you have a hole at the bottom, you either have a pipe with a strainer near the surface or an overflow box with a standpipe. Either way you are surface skimming and feeding the sump with surface water and not water where the turtle waste sits. Yes, you can still process water in the sump with biological media, but why bother if you haven't removed the source of the ammonia that is sitting at the bottom of the tank where the overflow setup cannot reach.

This setup works completely different in saltwater where the SG is higher and the proteins and waste become buoyant and can be dealt with via surface skimming. Surface skimming in freshwater where the SG is 0 or close to 0 is just pointless.

VeipaCray wrote:No mis-information I'm quite famililar with overflows and sumps, I've had one for the better part of the last 15 years and have designed and built many more.

It doesn't matter where the hole going to the sump is located, you still need an overflow surrounding the hole (surface skimming) and a standpipe. Your not pulling water from the bottom of the tank. And you can't have just a hole at the bottom of a tank with a bulkhead and plumbing attached. That would be idiotic. If you had a setup like that and lost power the display tank would drain via a gravity fed siphon until the entire display tank was empty enough to allow air into the hole at the bottom of the tank.

If you have a hole at the bottom, you either have a pipe with a strainer near the surface or an overflow box with a standpipe. Either way you are surface skimming and feeding the sump with surface water and not water where the turtle waste sits. Yes, you can still process water in the sump with biological media, but why bother if you haven't removed the source of the ammonia that is sitting at the bottom of the tank where the overflow setup cannot reach.

This setup works completely different in saltwater where the SG is higher and the proteins and waste become buoyant and can be dealt with via surface skimming. Surface skimming in freshwater where the SG is 0 or close to 0 is just pointless.

It sounds like you had it set up incorrectly for turtles (or haven't seen it done correctly).

Take the vertical standpipe at a height a few inches above the desired water level. Add (2) elbows so its pointing back down - add a length of pipe to whatever depth above the substrate you want, add another elbow (so the intake is parallel to the base of the tank. To ensure that siphon doesn't exists below the water level (ie siphon the whole tank out if the pump is off) drill a small hole at what height you want siphon the siphon to break.

Now you have water being drained from the bottom of the tank - ie * virtually* no surface skinning.

If your intake is submerged as you suggest, you flow rate is going to be very low as you're not getting any air down the drain. You're also going to have surging issues due to the lack of air in the plumbing.

If you have a hole in the top of the standpipe you'll get a siphon break and have no pressure to "suck" the water up your intake pipe at the bottom of the tank.

Could you take a picture of your setup? Maybe I'm visualizing this incorrectly.

Last edited by Loki047 on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VeipaCray wrote:If your intake is submerged as you suggest, you flow rate is going to be very low as you're not getting any air down the drain. You're also going to have surging issues due to the lack of air in the plumbing.

If you have a hole in the top of the standpipe you'll get a siphon break and have no pressure to "suck" the water up your intake pipe at the bottom of the tank.

Could you take a picture of your setup? Maybe I'm visualizing this incorrectly.

I am not sure if you have seen the beananimal overflow system. But its a variation of that (I havent seen it done the way I plan to do it yet, but I just assumed its the way to make it work for turtles since their sh*t does sink)

The overflow systems consists of 1 drain in full siphon (so no air - complete silent) [the middle tube], 1 drain with small water - lot of air (silent - no gurgling) [the right tube] and a overflow drain in case one of them gets blocked [the left tube]. From the fill siphon extend that down with PVC and put another 90 on it. Drill a small hole in the PVC a little bit below the desired water line so the siphon will break when the pump fails and the siphon continues.

I don't have it done yet - stand is another 4 weeks out - I am still collecting parts. I will take pictures and post them up when its done. I am up in Deerfield, you can come check it out whenever you want.

I guess Chicago produces a lot of filter gurus?? lol

happycamper wrote:I guess Chicago produces a lot of filter gurus?? lol

And good looking too

Yeah I'm familiar with the beananimal (modified herbie) setup.

I'm out in Naperville if you'd ever like some help working on this, I'd love to see it. I didn't think you could extend the intake all the way down to the bottom on that (or any design). In the picture you show, the drain pointing up is the "overflow" and takes air and water in. If you extend it all the way down, I believe you're going to have gravity issues "sucking" the water up the pipe.

I've never built a beananimal (just using a simple durso on my reef)

LMAO - Chicago produces a lot of filter Gurus. -- You'd never know it based on how disgusting our river is.

VeipaCray wrote:Yeah I'm familiar with the beananimal (modified herbie) setup.

I'm out in Naperville if you'd ever like some help working on this, I'd love to see it. I didn't think you could extend the intake all the way down to the bottom on that (or any design). In the picture you show, the drain pointing up is the "overflow" and takes air and water in. If you extend it all the way down, I believe you're going to have gravity issues "sucking" the water up the pipe.

I've never built a beananimal (just using a simple durso on my reef)

LMAO - Chicago produces a lot of filter Gurus. -- You'd never know it based on how disgusting our river is.

Ill let you know - I just ordered the bulkheads and pumps yesterday. The overflow point up would stay the same. I would essentially extend the middle tube down from that elbow to just above the substrate. I figure it should have the same vacuum effect if it was a pump "sucking" the return instead of siphoning - ie the same flow trough the same size pipe means equal pressure.

I will post it all up - maybe Im wrong but I think it would be a simple solution.

kingsnake.com is a very reputable reptile classifieds website.

I'm finally getting around to cleaning the tank tomorrow morning. Anything aside from hot water to deal with the salt? I've read white vinegar somewhere, but I haven't found anything else to back that up...

Yes, white vinegar, works great on mineral buildups, including salt.

Equipment Review and Discussion :: Starting from scratch - number of questions.

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