Urgent Care :: Recover from kidney damage?

[SliderGirl]

One of our RES, T2's the name, has been very sick for the last four days.
She's lethargic, won't eat, always basks, head down a lot.

We took her to a vet yesterday and the vet said T2 had a poor diet and it appears damage is done to her kidneys. She gave us instructions on how and what to feed her. The vet also gave her four shots (one for calcium, one for vit A and two others we can't decipher - metronid? fenbendazol?)

(We thought that since T2 was a baby she could have lots of protein - we fed her sardines, shrimp, and beef heart. We always kept lettuce in the tank too, for snacking. We tried feeding pellets but no luck.)

My question is this. It's day four and she's still miserable. She looks like she's in so much pain. Can a turtle recover from damaged kidneys? If not, I think we should have her put to sleep right away. We don't want her to suffer. And we are so sorry we killed her! This is horrible.

[megcornell]

I would personally give T2 a little while longer. She might not ever recover fully depending on the extent of kidney damage, but you should also realize that it will take time for the drugs to enter her system and work. Since turtles are cold blooded their metabolism is different from ours, so one thing you can do to help her out is to raise the water temp to about 80F.
The important thing is that you've gotten her help and are doing everything in your power to save her. It's really a matter of time now, but do give her at least a few more days, she's had a lot of stress lately between getting injections and going to the vets so its understandable that she's not eating. Do be watchful for a vit A overdose though, sometimes vets prescribe too much and it can have toxic effects. One other thought is about the vet... was he/she a herp. vet? If not, it's best to find a specialized vet, because they really deal with turtles on a more regular basis and can treat them better. So you may want to look into a second opinion before considering euthanasia. The symptoms you described sound like a respiratory infection to me. Does T2 swim crookedly?
Having turtles isn't as easy as everyone thinks. We've all made innocent mistakes with our turtles. So, don't be too hard on yourselves, it's clear you have nothing but the best intentions for your turtles. And also, Chinatown turtles weren't in the best of conditions, so it's possible that T2 may have underlying genetic or environmental effects from her time in Chinatown that complicate her illness.
Good luck!

[marisa]

How long have you had T2 and how big is she now? Kidney damage is not reversible, but depending on how much was done, she may have enough kidney function to recover and lead a "normal" life (but watch the diet). I wouldn't rush out and put her down because you think she's miserable. As was mentioned, give the meds a chance to work. And I would also get a second opinion before seriously considering this (from a herp vet or another one if the vet who treated her was one).

Metronidzole and fenbendazole (I'm assuming these are the spellings) are an antibiotic and agent to treat parasites, and combined with the calcium and Vit A shots, it sounds like the vet wasn't exactly sure what was going on and was trying to cover all bases (not that uncommon). I'd give your turtle some time and seek out a(nother) herp vet if you feel more drastic action is necessary.

Good luck.

[SliderGirl]

Thanks so much for your helpful and encouraging replies, Meg and Marisa.
T2 has not improved at all and we notice that her eyes are mega swollen. Perhaps it is a RI like you mentioned. She doesn't swim that much (just floats) so it's hard to determine if she's a crooked swimmer. We thought she was examined by a herp vet when we took her to the Animal Medical Center but her paperwork was not signed by the Herp Vet so now we're wondering!
Our regular herp vet was away at a convention but she should be back by now. We're hoping to bring T2 in to see her today.
To answer your question Marisa, T2 is probably 10 mos old. We bought her when she was a hatchling last October. I think she's about 3.5-4 inches. I hope you'll tell me that she's too young for kidney failure. I've done many internet searches on turtle kidney failure and I can't find that much info. Maybe someone can post "Signs of Kidney Failure" on the website?
Thanks again for your help. Will keep you posted...

[steve]

Was any tests conducted to determine it was kidney damage? Good herp vets are hard to come by, even in NYC. When will your regular vet be back?

[marisa]

I'm sorry to hear there has been no improvement in T2's condition, but I hope you will still have your regular herp vet take a look at T2 before making any decision.

To answer your question, kidney failure can occur at any age. Overfeeding, especially a high protein diet, taxes the kidneys and over time can lead to renal failure and premature death (when people wonder why a seemingly healthy RES rather suddenly dies at around 15 years of age, this could be the reason). But it can also be caused by some abnormality in the turtle and wasn't (and couldn't) be detected.

Why was the vet so focused on kidney failure? Was kidney functioning tested? Were/are the limbs and body bloated at all?

You mentioned swollen eyes---were they not swollen before but are now?

I hope that by now T2 has been seen by your regular vet and that you'll be posting with some more encouraging news...

[SliderGirl]

I have encouraging news. Our herp vet is back and my husband took T2 in to see her today. She says it looks like an extreme calcium deficiency. My husband was "trained" on how to give her shots of amikicin and calcium. (In one of our books it says amikicin is for RI so I'm a little confused and calling her tomorrow.) She was also given a "gavage feeding". When my husband brought her home she was much better and lively but now she's back to her lethargic ways. Right now she's sleeping but it's a peaceful sleep unlike last night when she looked like she was in pain.

No blood tests were done on kidney failure - yet. The first vet, I believe, was concerned about the puffiness in her shoulders - too puffy to bring her head into her shell.

Our vet today said that if she doesn't improve after this treatment then we'll check the kidneys.

Fingers crossed she'll bounce back! Thank you so much for your help.
ps-never in a million years did we ever think we would be giving shots to turtles. Life is full of surprises!

[SpotsMama]

I'm so glad you care about your turtle and are trying to get her the best possible treatment. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you all.

[marisa]

Well that does sound more encouraging.

When you say Amikicin, did you mean Amikacin (Amikin)? If so, this is an antibiotic (and is often the treatment of choice for septicemia/blood poisoning), and it sounds like the vet does think there's some infection involved. (I'm not familar with Amikicin).

Is the body still bloated? How are the eyes?

I'm hoping for some more good news...

[SliderGirl]

You're right - it's amikacin, but I have unsettling news. Today T2 was showing signs of improvement but she was not eating. Last night we tried to give her a shot of calcium but we failed. (We were too afraid of hurting her.) So today I went to the vet for a tube feeding and for both calcium and amikacin shots. (All went well except the feeding tube was clogged and they had to replace it. But after they replaced it all was smooth.) As I was walking home with her she looked so alert and curious. How exciting! But now, six hours later, she looks horrible!! And I think she's a he -- I think a little penis came out. And her eyes are more swollen than before. I took a picture and I'm trying to figure out how to send it to you....

[SliderGirl]

[SliderGirl]

Here's a pic. Please let me know what you think. I'm calling the vet again tomorrow. Wow, I'm learning so much about turtles - I'm now researching prolapses. Could this be a prolapse? We do not have gravel in the tank, but she wasn't eating anyway - she only had what the vet fed her. Do you think there was something bad in the vet's food? Oh this poor girl (or guy?) she can't get a break.
Thanks so much for your help.

[marisa]

Well, I see the back half of a turtle, so I can't say anything about the eyes. I can't remember T2's shell length, but the tail looks to me like it belongs to a female (I would have thought your vet would have corrected you if she thought your turtle was a male---are the front claws long and spiky?) It's small and thin and the cloaca is near to the shell, all characteristics of a female. Males' organs are surprisingly large, not small. It does appear swollen underneath, though. This is new? Either sex can have an intestinal prolapse and eating gravel isn't the only cause of one, but I can't tell from the pic if that's what's happening. What did the object that came out look like (color)?

Perhaps her sudden change is due to the medication starting to work. You're going to have to talk to you vet about this. What has the vet said about the eyes? Some medications can surpress the appetite while a turtle is on them, and you might find out if this is the case with the meds T2 is getting.

[SliderGirl]

Thanks Marisa, T2's shell is about 3.5-4" long. Oh I thought the little light gray thing was a penis but I'm not surprised she is a girl. When she was healthy she was a calm turtle unlike Coco, who is a boy, and very hyper. Yes this swelling is new and I'm certain it's in connection with the tube feeding she received yesterday. Your reply seriously makes me question my vet's expertise in turtles. She didn't give me an explanation on the eyes. And why didn't she tell me that medication suppresses appetite?
I brought T2 back to the vet's at lunchtime and they are keeping her over the weekend. They don't know what the problem is. They were concerned though with the color of her poop (pinkish/light orange). It looked very much like the color of the food they gave her which means she's not digesting. I'll know for certain what's going on when I pick her up on Monday because they are going to run some tests. Thanks again for your help!

[marisa]

It still could be a little early on the sex, but my RES starting showing the long nail and big tail when his shell length was a little under 4 inches.

Maybe she didn't mention the meds affecting the appetite because not all of them do. It would be good to ask her if Amikacin does. and your turtle is ill, so I wouldn't be surprised if she showed a lack of interest in food.

Turtles poop often does take on the color of the food they're eating, at least healthy turtle's poop does.

I'd make a list of questions that I wanted answers to and have them ready to ask your vet.