Urgent Care :: Johnny Sick?

[AllisonChains]

I'm not sure if I should post this in Urgent care or not, but I am trying -

Last night I did a complete water change in his tank. I had him in his plastic tub during water change with conditioned water. He was outside with my daughter while in his tub, but not in the sun. It was late evening.

We let him walk around a little in the grass in a little fence we made for him, maybe 20 - 30 minutes. I was also taking pictures of his shell dry for another topic about his algae spots.

I let the tank sit and the filter run for about 30 minutes before putting him back in.

I noticed that after a few hours he was very lethargic, keeping his eyes closed and sleeping. He is usually very active up until the minute that I turn off lights and cover his tank, then he goes to sleep. I thought maybe the yard/tub stressed him out and he was just literally tired from it.

I woke up this morning and he was fairly active until I left for work. I came home around 4 or so and he was basking with his eyes closed and didn't have legs stretched out at all. He always has the Superman pose and I have never seen him close his eyes...and he always gets right back into the water if he is basking and I come in, but not tonight.

I checked on him about every 20 - 30 minutes and he was either sleeping in the corner or at the bottom of the tank. It seemed a little hard to arouse him, but I don't if he truly was in a deep sleep or if something else may be wrong. I tried to arouse him about an hour ago and truly thought he was dead because it was hard to.... my daughter was with me, so I just said he was sleeping. I just looked and he is under his dock asleep, which is usually where he sleeps. So, obviously he isn't dead. I don't see any signs of difficulty breathing or yawning a lot or what looks like him swallowing a lot.

I did everything the same and used the same stuff when changing his tank this time as before.

I have just been looking at some of your pictures of your turtles because it seems that he might have some white build-up (?) above his eyes, but not on his eyes - they don't look swollen. Does that make sense? Would the actual eye be swollen or around it, like at the top?

I am trying to locate a vet here because I do want him to have a check-up, especially since he came from a pet store with less than ideal conditions. Could he have maybe come home with something? It just seems so 'all of a sudden.'

Anyway - here are the questions:

How big is your turtle? 4"

How long have you had it? just under a month

What is the water temperature? 75

Did you use a thermometer? outside sticky, two at each end of tank

Are you using a water heater? yes

How much water is in there? 55 gallon, well over half full

Are you using a water conditioner? yes, accidentally used fish water conditioner

Are you using any filtration? marineland magnum 350

What is the basking temperature? 90

Is there a basking light? yes

Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes

What kind is it or what is it made out of? ZooMed turtle dock

Is there a UVB light? yes

What have you been trying to feed it? pellets every other day, krill maybe once a week, cuttlebone, trying vegetables on non-pellet days

When was the last time your turtle ate? Wednesday night, it is now Thursday night

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 55 gallon indoor tank

Is the tank near a window? no

Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? no

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes

Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? very slow, not active as usual, lots of sleeping..

Sorry for how long it is and thank you guys. I am just panicked that there may be something wrong with my new little friend.

[SpotsMama]

When he was outside could he have gotten into anything contaminated with pesticides or fertilizer? Were there any ants or bees where he was that could have stung him?

[RESnTX]

A couple of questions.
Was this the first time he has been outside since you've had him?
Do you use any kind of fertilizer or insecticides?

The sticky type of thermometer on the outside isn't very accurate at all. You need to get one that has a probe that goes into the water. I wonder if maybe the water was too cold after you had him outside. Not sure though why that would be affecting his eyes. Did you maybe use too much of the conditioner?

[AllisonChains]

We have the trees done, but not the yard and he was in the middle of the big part of the yard. We both were out with him that time and his little fence was maybe 2'x4', but we were right there with him to watch and I didn't notice any ants where we were or anything else.

Geez, did I really think that the spray still couldn't have got on the grass?!?

Yes, this was the first time for him to be in the grass, but not outside. Usually he is in his tub... but even that has only been a few times.

I do have a new thermometer on my list to get this weekend, but the water doesn't feel too cold when I stick a finger in it, it is on the warmer side to the touch.

Res - I see you are in Houston, also. If you don't mind me asking, what part? I am south of in the Clear Lake area and the only herp vet I knew of, and liked, isn't here anymore. Any ideas?

[RESnTX]

Oh, you are close to me. I am just inside of the Beltway.

I take my lil guy here....http://www.gcvs.com/ My sister and I both use Dr. Antinoff for our turtles. Dr. Antinoff is listed here under the section for herp doctors. She is really great and has done wonders for issues I have had with my res and she saved my sisters cherryhead tortoise.

[AllisonChains]

Thank You!

It looks to be 45 minutes to an hour from me, but I think it is definitely worth it.

[RESnTX]

It is an easy, quick drive if you have time during the day to go so that you can avoid traffic. It's also pretty easy to get an appointment, usually next day or so. If you have any other questions feel free to p.m. me.

[AllisonChains]

Thank you SO much - I appreciate it and I feel better going with your recommendation. I am trying to make an appointment for tomorrow.

He was alright and slept most of the night. This morning he was much more active, but his eyes look much more swollen and cloudy. He crawled on his basking platform as soon as he could and just sat there with his eyes closed.

[steve]

Was the tank water dechlorinated or just the water in his tub?

[AllisonChains]

Steve - both the tub and tank were done.

I was able to get her in this morning to be seen and Dr. says vitamin A deficiency, so he gave her a shot! Sadly, he says that he sees a lot of that and a lot of RI from this particular Petco. He thinks everything else is OK.

Thanks everyone for the help and the PM messages checking on her, you guys rock....

[AllisonChains]

Dr. says it would be a full 24 hours before we see improvement in the eyes and this morning they are a little swollen and she is keeping them shut again.

I might can understand having to wait to get the full effect of the shot, but isn't the point of a shot because they need relief pretty quick?

Is it normal for the swelling to come and go until the vitamin A kicks in a little? Her eyes were fine at the vet and most of the day yesterday, but today are puffy again.

[AllisonChains]

I am wondering if there isn't still a problem or another problem - she has been sleeping and pretty quiet most of the day. I only see her really swimming around or basking very little.

[SpotsMama]

A vitamin A shot itself can be pretty stressful. The vet must have concluded that your turtle needed a big dose of vitamin A quickly.

One of the symptoms of a vitamin A deficiency is swollen or irritated eyes. Oddly enough, it's also a symptom of too much vitamin A. Maybe your turtle is just going through a different type of vitamin A situation now.

Or, as you suggest, there could be another problem going on. Symptoms of RI are swollen or irritated eyes, lethargy, swimming lopsided or difficulty submerging, poor appetite, yawning frequently or breathing with the mouth open, and mucus around the mouth or nose. A turtle with RI doesn't usually show all these symptoms, especially when the illness is in its early stages.

Lethargy is a symptom of almost any illness or condition. It's simply a sign that a turtle isn't feeling well.

When a turtle isn't well, the standard advice is to keep her warm, very clean, avoid stress (ie, don't pick her up unless you have to and keep the room quiet), and keep her eating. How is her appetite? If she refuses her normal food, you can offer her treats like tuna or shrimp until she's feeling better.

With luck, the vet's shot will start helping and your girl will perk up. Please keep us posted. We're thinking about you and your turtle and hoping she gets better soon.

[AllisonChains]

I was wondering if she might be going through a 'first too little then too much' type situation with the Vitamin A. I was especially worried when her eyes were rather clear and not swollen at the vet, but then they were again this morning.

I don't see her having any of the symptoms that you mentioned concerning RI. I have been looking in on her about every 30 minutes, but she hasn't had any of them.

She ate yesterday morning which was pellet day and she ate as well as usual. I will try and give her a little something here in a bit to make sure she still has an appetite. She is basking right now doing the Superman.

I feel so bad for her..... it's like when your kid feels bad and you do everything you can, but they still feel awful.

Thank you so much for the help and concern.

[TheComputerGremlin]

When she's sick, it's okay to feed her pellets daily. A week of extra pellets won't cause pyramiding, so it won't hurt. That way, you can monitor her eating more often and the extra nutrients should help her heal faster.