Urgent Care :: Shell rot?

[anthonyammo]

How big is your turtle? approx 7" shell
How long have you had it? He's probably 6-ish

What is the water temperature? Don't know. Definitely too cold.
Are you using a water heater? No
How much water is in there? 50-ish gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? No
Are you using any filtration? Yes, large canister for 150 gallon tank

Is there a basking light? Yes.
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes.
What kind is it or what is it made out of? It is the large zoo med turtle dock. He always goes on it.
Is there a UVB light? Yes

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 75 Gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? The room has a large window. Turtle approx 8 feet away
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Sometimes

This is concerning my turtle Bud. He was too big for me to bring with me when I moved, so I gave him to my sister. I'm visiting now. He has a nice overall set-up, except for there being no heater. The water was fine in the summer (the house is very warm then), but I'm visiting now, and putting my hand in I can tell it is quite cold. I'm also of the impression that the water here is fairly hard.

I noticed some peculiarities in his shell. First of all, it just doesn't look especially healthy to me overall. There appears to be some pyramiding. He eats turtle food almost exclusively because he refuses to eat any plant life. He always has, no matter how much we've tried.

There seems to be some shell-rot going on, but I just wanted to see your thoughts. There is a white spot on the very top of the turtle, as you'll see in the first image (he had been basking, so the shell is completely dry in the 1st pic). On the plastron there appears to be some gradual rot.

I'm very worried. I'm only here until the mid-afternoon, so I may not be able to look at him hands-on myself after today, but I will be on contact with my sister.

http://i.imgur.com/G8jyc1C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ax3Jmgp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UwqsJxI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0ZjUs0J.jpg

[steve]

I don't really see any pyramiding or shell rot. There is some sort of breach in the shell... how long ago did he shed? Were any scutes forced off?

edit-correction

[anthonyammo]

No scutes have been forced off. I'm unsure of the last time he really shed. My sister lets the scutes fall off naturally, and then when she notices one she'll just scoop it up.

Unfortunately, I can't get a picture right now. It's hard to tell in the images I posted, but there seem to be abrasions on the plastron, particularly on the area closest to his head.

In the second and third pictures, I was worried that the craters towards the middle of his plastron might be shell rot.

[steve]

Shell rot is a very generic term but breaches in the shell can lead to infections and other trouble. If they were retained they could have led to an infection as well. Although I normally wouldn't be too concerned about a few small pits, there does seem to be some ongoing shell issues.

Aside from making sure there is a good uvb source, calcium and D3 in the diet, I would make sure the water is very clean. The turtle needs to be able to completely dry off his carapace.

I would probably do some dry docking and some mild cleaning (with diluted betadine or hibiclens). If it does not improve, then I'd speak to a herp vet.

[anthonyammo]

Thanks Steve. As always, I appreciate it. We did just as you said last night, but we also applied Neosporin after the betadine had dried. She is going to continue with that (unless the neosporin is a bad idea).

My sister messaged me this afternoon to tell me that the big white spot in his back "popped right off." I figured I'd post an image of the spot sans-white stuff just in case.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/97m3n3grsqdz2 ... .33.15.jpg

[lovemyturtles]

I'm grateful for this post as I am experiencing some shell issues with one of my turtles. My turtle came from a bad place and I have worked to assist her as best as possible. I've noticed a few pits on her plastron as well as some white, flakiness. She been retaining scutes since the end of December. I reacted with a wait and see approach, hoping that with uvb, a nutritious diet, and basking that she would eventually shed but after six weeks without progress, I decided to intervene. I've been scrubbing and dry docking her. First I tried betadine then chlorohexidine. On a few occasions I applied neosporin but stopped because it's a pain to get off and seems to trap moisture. The docking and scrubbing has helping to assist her in shedding. Her plastron is about 70% shed. It was about three layers thick. The color on her plastron has started to return to bright yellow and black but some white, flaky areas remain. I use hard water so a part of me thinks she may have mineral deposits on her shell. What perplexes me though is that I have another turtle living in a separate habitat under similar conditions (same hard water) without any buildup on her shell - she has shed twice already.

I'm no expert by any means but the shell on your turtle looks healthy to me. I appreciate the concern you have for your turtle and thank you for posting.

[anthonyammo]

Thanks for the reply.

I too had the thought about hard water/mineral deposits that you are having, but--also like you--my sister has two small turtles in another tank who aren't having a problem.

[lovemyturtles]

In diagnosing my turtle's shell issues I'm somewhere between hard water, fungus, bacteria, and a bad shed. I'm leaning toward a bad shed simply because I can see at least three layers of built up scutes, which unfortunately requires lots of time for a complete shed to occur. My biggest concern entails the potential for debris to accumulate under the scutes. I'm basically wanting to prevent an infection from occurring and if an infection presently exists I want to address it. I have divided feelings about taking her to a vet mainly because the vets in my area specialize in cats and dogs, not sliders. My other reason for prolonging a visit to the vet is the weather. It's blustery and cold here in upstate, NY and I just don't want to expose her to inclement weather. I don't smell anything foul, her shell is hard, she is active and content with a hardy appetite and consistent bowels so overall, I don't think I have too much to worry about but sliders are funny creatures. I have one slider with a constitution so strong, she could survive a nuclear attack. My other slider has encountered a few more obstacles: flesh wounds, an abscess, respiratory distress, and now her shell. I rescued both turtles at the same time from the same adverse circumstances. Why one seems weaker than the other perplexes me because I treat them both the same - same water, same diet, same lighting, same husbandry...I have a soft spot for my turtle that I am currently helping... she is very sweet, gentle, and people friendly. I hope I am doing the right thing for her. I hope your "kids" are doing well. By the way, how is Bud??? Has your sister given you any updates?

[steve]

I don't think neosporin is bad, but again it depends on the situation. If there is no infection, then you won't need it and air-drying is good enough.

[lovemyturtles]

I agree about the neosporin. I used it along with betadine to treat some flesh wounds and experienced optimal results. I personally prefer the cream b/c the petroleum in the ointment makes removal tricky. I like to have a first aid kit on hand for emergencies. I find that cotton balls and cotton swabs work well for applying medication. I have also use a bulb syringe for applying betadine. Bulb syringes are nice because they eject fluid slowly to prevent anything from getting into an eye.

[anthonyammo]

My sister has been keeping up with Bud. Aside from the white spot falling off the other day, she hasn't noticed any change. But it has only really been three or four days of treatment.

[anthonyammo]

Everything had been going pretty well for Bud. Back when this was all going down I discovered that the food she was giving him had shrimp in it and I told her not to do that again since there may be a connection between that and shell rot.

On my visit to see her two weeks ago, she mentioned that she was giving him food with shrimp in it again--she said she wasn't able to find any at the store that didn't have it. I have no idea why she went ahead and gave him food with shrimp after everything we went through last time. Even if there was only a small chance that had something to do with it, why take that chance. Needless to say, I immediately threw those pellets in the trash and told her that he's better off not eating for a few days than to eat that stuff.

So today she sends me this picture--says he looks like this when he is dry on his platform.

http://i.imgur.com/HSAKMUM.jpg


Shell rot?

[steve]

Do you want me to look at the same area or towards the rear? That looks like some pitting. For pellets, look into Omega One - http://www.petco.com/product/119671/Ome ... ticks.aspx

[anthonyammo]

Pitting associated with shell rot, or just general pitting? I'm sorry, I'm looking up the terminology for pitting and it seems a little unclear.

Thanks!

[steve]

Surface pitting could be a bacterial infection*. Not sure what causes it, but it usually spreads to the entire shell. Despite that, it's usually shed away without special treatment. A clearer picture might change my opinion, but that's what it looks like.

* that's based on the info we have, there's very little solid medical info but this what I've been calling it.