General Care Discussion :: Unable to surface?

Taking care of your turtle's overall health.

Post Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:28 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

It is truly a pleasant communication with you RedZz. As Steve tended to see the same thing I did so far, I am shocked to hear about the bubble wall. The turtles have been with you for nearly 3 months and the issue arose if I am correct after you placed in the bubble wall (correct me if I am wrong). No issues prior to either turtle. I am only assuming that you installed the bubble wall recently in order for you to ask this question at the present time.

Here is my experience with medications working many many years ago in a exotic vets office that may explain a bit on the situation and it may not as well. Exotic and herp vets will first examine and do diagnosis based on test and observations. Second, if medications are administered in cases, they need to have the estimated age of the reptile and obviously know the species. Here is my thought pattern on the age of reptiles. Dr. Sudo (rest in peace) who was not only my boss but best friend in my personal life as we did everything together in and off the clock, has always determined the age of the reptile for the reason that reptiles UNDER a year old have a weaker immune system and their internal organs have not fully developed yet. Reptiles under a year old coming in sick always received weaker antibiotics then reptiles OVER a year old.

Normally this would not matter in your case but let me point this out a bit. Your turtles are UNDER the year old (being nearly about 3 months old), my curiosity would be and with never hearing about a bubble wall issue, Could it be that due to the sensitivity of your turtles growing internal development stages during the first year, could the turtle of been in the ongoing bubbles to much during the development stage to cause a unexpected neurological issue ? My personally thoughts tell me yes comparing the situation to SBS or what is known as shaken baby syndrome in humans. I am not a exotic vet or reptile vet to determine this and I never seen nor heard about a case such as this ever. It is just a possibility on the internal growth of the turtles organs at this stage of their lives.

I would call a exotic and or herp vet on the matter just to ask if it was me, Not a regular vet though. If it was me, I would remove the bubble jet wall right away as well and hopefully it stops the problem but neurological disorders can hardly be treated if any and hopefully since the turtle is still in developing stages, that it is not permanent . Watch your turtle child over the next week to see if there is any changes (fingers crossed that it returns to normal). Please post a video as soon as you can and another video 7 to 10 days after the bubble wall removal if you will.

Regarding the question on the shell , I agrree fully with Steve on cutting back a bit on the diet. We all have been there and done that and actually one if not both my larger albino red ear sliders will be getting less as well. It is a common area we all have or had somewhere in our lives around turtles.

Cheers Mate.
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:58 am   Re: Unable to surface?

Tampa Bay Turtle Fan wrote:It is truly a pleasant communication with you RedZz. As Steve tended to see the same thing I did so far, I am shocked to hear about the bubble wall. The turtles have been with you for nearly 3 months and the issue arose if I am correct after you placed in the bubble wall (correct me if I am wrong). No issues prior to either turtle. I am only assuming that you installed the bubble wall recently in order for you to ask this question at the present time.

Here is my experience with medications working many many years ago in a exotic vets office that may explain a bit on the situation and it may not as well. Exotic and herp vets will first examine and do diagnosis based on test and observations. Second, if medications are administered in cases, they need to have the estimated age of the reptile and obviously know the species. Here is my thought pattern on the age of reptiles. Dr. Sudo (rest in peace) who was not only my boss but best friend in my personal life as we did everything together in and off the clock, has always determined the age of the reptile for the reason that reptiles UNDER a year old have a weaker immune system and their internal organs have not fully developed yet. Reptiles under a year old coming in sick always received weaker antibiotics then reptiles OVER a year old.

Normally this would not matter in your case but let me point this out a bit. Your turtles are UNDER the year old (being nearly about 3 months old), my curiosity would be and with never hearing about a bubble wall issue, Could it be that due to the sensitivity of your turtles growing internal development stages during the first year, could the turtle of been in the ongoing bubbles to much during the development stage to cause a unexpected neurological issue ? My personally thoughts tell me yes comparing the situation to SBS or what is known as shaken baby syndrome in humans. I am not a exotic vet or reptile vet to determine this and I never seen nor heard about a case such as this ever. It is just a possibility on the internal growth of the turtles organs at this stage of their lives.

I would call a exotic and or herp vet on the matter just to ask if it was me, Not a regular vet though. If it was me, I would remove the bubble jet wall right away as well and hopefully it stops the problem but neurological disorders can hardly be treated if any and hopefully since the turtle is still in developing stages, that it is not permanent . Watch your turtle child over the next week to see if there is any changes (fingers crossed that it returns to normal). Please post a video as soon as you can and another video 7 to 10 days after the bubble wall removal if you will.

Regarding the question on the shell , I agrree fully with Steve on cutting back a bit on the diet. We all have been there and done that and actually one if not both my larger albino red ear sliders will be getting less as well. It is a common area we all have or had somewhere in our lives around turtles.

Cheers Mate.

I think you misread or misunderstood. The bubbles may be making them flip around physically, not mentally. They also seem to no longer flip around so I guess the only problem is their diet?
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:45 am   Re: Unable to surface?

The way both I read it and Steve's statement indicated a neurological disorder and that has nothing to do with it mental condition lolol I had to laugh, sorry. Some pets can be crazy at times but a mental turtle ? I have never heard of lol. Maybe I was confused but on the good news, you seemed to of worked it out. Yes then your turtles are fine and you can possibly utilize Steves idea on a pill container that comes in 7 day or more divided sections so that you can equally determine the daily nutrition out evenly and accurately.
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:04 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

Tampa Bay Turtle Fan wrote:The way both I read it and Steve's statement indicated a neurological disorder and that has nothing to do with it mental condition lolol I had to laugh, sorry. Some pets can be crazy at times but a mental turtle ? I have never heard of lol. Maybe I was confused but on the good news, you seemed to of worked it out. Yes then your turtles are fine and you can possibly utilize Steves idea on a pill container that comes in 7 day or more divided sections so that you can equally determine the daily nutrition out evenly and accurately.


What should I feed them? I've tried vegetables but they won't go near it. I can't find Mazuri, so right now all I feed is Reptomin baby floating sticks.
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Post Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:26 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

Reptomin is alright. Mazuri can be ordered from their site... they usually have some sort of coupon deal going on.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:12 am   Re: Unable to surface?

Well um, got a video of him doing it finally.
https://youtu.be/MWuoW610GJQ

On my phone so don't know how to paste videos. He also sleeps weirdly, maybe I'll get a picture of that.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:17 am   Re: Unable to surface?

Image Not sleeping right now, but he sleeps like this.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:48 am   Re: Unable to surface?

Hard to tell whats going on but setup looks like it's making it difficult for him to move around... near the end of the video, it does look like a neurological issue.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:35 am   Re: Unable to surface?

I fully agree with the set up on being difficult to move around and yes I fully agree that from observations it appears to be a neurological disorder too. Difficult to say other than to place him for maybe a week or so in a temporary housing container that you can change the water daily or every other day when its needed with only providing the basics such as a basking area and lighting but no filtration and a bit more in swimming room. If he is continued to be observed doing this, you will know for a fact at this point that it is neurological . You can also change the tank he is in around a bit but I would go with the other plan just to be sure.

If he does not do it in the temporary housing during your daily observation , then you would know that it would be the way your tank is set up. I am leaning more to a start of neurological condition however based on your other turtle not having these symptoms, in the same tank, and near the exact same size.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:30 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

How can I change the setup without getting a new tank?
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:12 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

The more I see the video and I kept refreshing it a number of times as Steve pointed it out that at the end of the video, the turtle is to the right of the aquarium and still doing the circles however I did notice its little head was tucked more to the right while trying to tilt its head up at the same time in a tiny angle where you see his eye and at it was not in a normal position. Kinda hard to explain but if you watch it slow, you will see it. It is a neurological disorder from what I can tell based on the observations and kinda like a human that has seizures. Seizures do not happen all the time every day but when it does, you know it. Meaning that the rest of the time as you said, its feeding proper and acting fine .

When I first watched the video, I was thinking to myself, could it be the way the water is filtrating upon his small swimming area steering up a neurological disorder or is the water impacting it to doing this odd behavior in shallow water? When looking at the video a number of times and with the other turtle behaving fine, I do believe that with it directly falling into this small swimming area without a escape root where the water is not impacting his swimming activity to much, could stir up a neurological disorder into occurring.

Take seizures again as a example, lights and certain activities can set them off as well as stress and other factors. Just look at this issue as the same way if nothing more, to determine the cause. Can you try to relocate the filtration and give him a dedicated swimming area without the high impact in such shallow water just so you can determine this or if it gets any better?
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Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:36 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

Was there more than one turtle? If there is something neurological, you might need to have shallow water and have him under close supervision. I agree with TB, and I'd like to see how he does without the filter.
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Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:17 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

Thank you Steve on seeing the same observations. Earlier in the thread he posted photos both baby turtles together in the same tank and same lighting of what you see above sitting together on their basking area however the video did not show them both or entire tank but focused on the issue itself from the one in which we asked for. So yes, there is two baby turtles in the same tank however the second was not view able in the video itself. The other baby has not been reported to have any issue at all therefor this factor has me leaning to a neurological disorder as well. The filtration test should be able to clarify everything though for sure and the steps needed to be done after.
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Post Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:14 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

I'll be trying the filter test soon. But does a neurological disorder start when the turtle is born or does it develop over time? If over time, what could've caused it? He used to be fine until around this month.

EDIT: Today I went ahead and filled some more water, since it was too shallow and its hard for them to turn back when they flip over. Is it normal that a turtle has bubbles coming out of its nose out of water? I waited a while and it didn't happen again. So is there a possible RI?
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Post Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:10 pm   Re: Unable to surface?

There very well could be a RI going on without question and in regards to a neurological disorder you are right in kinda both ways that it could occur at anytime really. More so during the incubation period in the egg prior to hatching but it does occur sometimes during their lives for other unseen reasons and or trauma. If you suspect a RI and since a RI in reptiles can be contagious, I do recommend separation of the two turtles and preventive sterilization of the tank and accessories that they are currently in if nothing more as a safeguard from spreading of the RI. If indeed you feel it is a RI, I asked megan from my old clinic a few days ago to send me out some listed medications to me for both turtles and snakes . Based on your experience and depending on where you live, I may be able to help out. But if you don't have the experience from a previous vet visits or live outside America, I would not be able to help. The turtles well being would be my concern which you could understand I am sure. I am having a custom website built that will include a variety of things from filtration and tank accessories to medications based of course strictly on experience levels. It is not that I need the money because I do not, it is mainly strictly to helping others and being a hobbyist myself. I just ordered a wide variety of things for the site to get started with.
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