General Care Discussion :: Female bites male-Please help!

Taking care of your turtle's overall health.

Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:00 pm   Female bites male-Please help!

Hello,

I have two RESs, a male and a female. Both are 4 yrs. old. They lived in harmony, the male courted the female, and everything was OK. But a month ago, from time to time, the male began to let out a strange black "intestine" (I presume this is his reproductive organ) under his tail, and retract it. This always attracts the female who bites him on that "intestine"and won't let go until I separate them. Today she managed to hurt him by doing this, because there were a few drops of blood. :( Could anyone, please, help me! I don't know what to do. Should I separate them for a while?

Best regards,

M. R.
firelord77
 
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:04 pm   

How large is the set up you have them in? If it is too small, the added stress may lead her to attack him and as females can get much larger than males she may be dominant. As the aggression is leading to injury, the safest bet is to either adopt one turtle out or to separate them permanently into their own set ups. As the turtles get larger the aggression will only intensify.
2 RES: Leo (f) and Ezra (m)
1 Russian Tortoise: Godzilla (m)
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megcornell
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:48 pm   

Welcome to the forum. Someone on another forum's turtle bled to death because he was bitten in the manner your male is now being bitten.

How big are your turtles (shell lengths minus the curves) and how big is the tank they're in? They may need a larger tank, they may ultimately need to have separate set-ups.

Keep the water the male is in really clean to help prevent his wound from getting infected.
"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -Antoine de Saint Exupery-
marisa
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:55 pm   

marisa wrote:Keep the water the male is in really clean to help prevent his wound from getting infected.


Thank you all for the quick reply! Now I'm really worried. They are male: 80 cm and female: 110 cm long. The

female (I didn't want to name them, but I really love them) was never

aggressive. I think that she thinks that the intestine is food, and that is

the problem. I have a 40l tank which I bought when they were smaller since I

don't have enough room in my house. A 120 gallon tank is by no means an option for me. :( Could you please tell me the minimum size of the tank that would be acceptable? I must stress that, so far, neither of them have been aggressive or manifested any strange behaviour (aside from the courting ;)). I will post the pictures of my setup on this forum. Could I post them in this topic, or do I have to post them in the gallery? I changed the water yesterday and I have a power filter (for 250l tank). I always add a spoonful of salt per gallon of water everytime I change it, so I hope there won't be an infection since there wasn't much bleeding.

Best regards,

M. R.

P. S. The turtles were presents, so I had to ensure they had everything they needed (as far as my situation allowed).
firelord77
 
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:09 pm   

You need 10 gallons per inch of shell.. Youre going to eventually need about a 250 gallon tank ... ten gallons per inch... males grow to about 10 inches, females up to 12 inches... Or, you could get seperate tanks.

What size tank do you have them in now?
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Female RES, Karlyn AKA "Moochie" :mrgreen:
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Hoooneylynn
 
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:30 pm   

I've also read of amputations :( Do you mean your current tank is 40 liters (= 10 gallons)? That is much too small.

Feel free to make a new topic in the photos section and welcome to the forum.
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steve
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:55 pm   

I am thinking you made a mistake when you said 80 and 110 cm, because that's equal to a couple of turtles over 30 inches long :-). So I assumed you meant mm, in which case your turtles are 3-4 inches right?
By 40l do you mean a 40 gallon "Long" tank or a 40 Liter tank?
If you meant 40 liters, that tank is too small for either turtle let alone the two together. If you meant 40 gallons I would suggest leaving the male in there alone and moving the female to her own tank.
If you cannot afford or don't have the space for one very large (100 gallon plus) tank, in my opinion it's less harmful to the turtles to have two "less than perfect tanks." By this I mean, I think it's OK to have a turtle in a tank that doesn't meet the 10 gallon/inch rule as long as it's still providing ample space to swim and bask and enjoy life as best the turtle can in a small tank. However, keeping two turtles in a small tank will be a disaster as you're finding out now by the aggression. By no means was the bite a misidentified thought of food. Especially if the turtles are in a 10 gallon tank, they don't have enough room and are taking it out on each other.
So in regards to the minimum tank size, I would recommend SEPARATE TANKS, and would really encourage you to get as large a tank for each as you can. If you can only get 20 or 30 gallon tanks, you may want to adopt out the turtles because these will by no means be satisfactory living arrangements at even their current size, let alone when they're full grown adults. It also may be an option for you to give one turtle away and focus your budget and space on providing a very good habitat for one turtle instead of two mediocre habitats for two turtles.
2 RES: Leo (f) and Ezra (m)
1 Russian Tortoise: Godzilla (m)
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megcornell
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:11 am   

I agree totally with Meg... If space is an issue, maybe ask a trusted family member or friend to take one.. there is no way they can be kept in something that small even when they are 4 inches, let alone 10 or 12 :( Even if you do decided to let one go, find someone to take it instead of releasing it into the wild, it will not survive.
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Female RES, Karlyn AKA "Moochie" :mrgreen:
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:22 pm   Re: Female bites male-Please help!

firelord77 wrote: But a month ago, from time to time, the male began to let out a strange black "intestine" (I presume this is his reproductive organ) under his tail, and retract it. This always attracts the female who bites him on that "intestine"and won't let go until I separate them. Today she managed to hurt him by doing this, because there were a few drops of blood. :( Could anyone, please, help me! I don't know what to do. Should I separate them for a while?


Unfortunately, they will either A.) need a bigger tank set up or B.) need to be separated permanently from now on (I vote for B, based on personal experience). I went thru something similar between a male & female turtle that cohabited a tank and I can tell you that the fighting is not pretty to watch. It also gets more violent as time goes on.

Many yrs ago, I had a male & female too. We always thought it was cute to watch the male court the female by fluttering his nails in front of her face, or flash his male organ when he reached puberty. At first, she didn't seem to mind & would tolerate him for hours on end without a response. Then, it was like the war of the roses!!! My larger female RES (7") would literally snap at the 4" male, sometimes breaking off one of his very long nails in the process as she chased him around the tank. One time she pulled so hard on his arm that it became sprained. Then another time, he attacked her & started snapping at her arms/legs, drawing blood. It was a constant battle between the two (very LOUD when they fought as they ran into the glass of the aquarium) and eventually I just had to let one out (to walk around my living room) during the day for 6-8 hours, then rotate with the other one that was still in the tank. The only time they were ever together in the tank was at night, when all the lights were off & sleeping. This worked out well, but it was a major pain in the [---] to constantly have to track how long a turtle has been out of the tank. Not to mention that the female was laying eggs almost 3 times a year (due to the presence of the male) and I had to constantly deal with the big mess she would either leave in the tank when the eggs would get laid in the tank & destroyed or partially eaten by her, or laid under the beanbag in the living room (!). I was constantly trying to catch the eggs before they turned into a big mess. And when she laid them in the tank, it was a mess of egg yolks in the tank, covering everything, getting in the filter media, etc. Everything needed to be scrubbed down. Changing tank water was a bucket by bucket job, very laborous, especially when you end up doing it one day, to find out that she wasn't done laying eggs, and now you have to do it AGAIN 2 days later (55 gallons!). I finally gave up the battle & gave the male to one of my friends who was looking for a pet.

As much as I hated to let him go, I knew he went to a good home, & life has been very peaceful. Now I can dedicate all my efforts to Sheba.

I will never again have 2 turtles in one tank again. No thanks. Sheba (full-grown adult of 11") keeps me busy enough! 8)
Kristin's Pond! Starring:

RES = "Sheba", 21+ yrs. old
African Clawed Frog = "Prog", 10 yrs old
& "Kristin" as Momma
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industrial_girl_2000
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:07 pm   

fire, have you decided what you are going to do?
¨*:·.-:¦:- Jessica -:¦:-·:*¨
Female RES, Karlyn AKA "Moochie" :mrgreen:
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Hoooneylynn
 
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:07 pm   

Hoooneylynn wrote:fire, have you decided what you are going to do?


WOW! I stopped receiving email announcements so I figured no one else had taken interest in my problem... :) How wrong I was! THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! You've been most helpful. :) I made a mistake, the lenghts of my RES are 80 and 110 mm! I guess I was too worried... I intended to build a large (about 100l), plexiglass tank, before the biting incidents, and will eventually do so in the spring. :) I may keep the male temporary in the smaller tank, until I build a larger one for him as well. Adoption is completely out of the question, because, as you know all too well, RES require responsibility and long term commitment, and I can't find anyone to match these criteria for the moment. I guess I will need a more powerful heater and a different kind of filter for the new tank. The power filter I've got is good for eliminating mechanical waste, but I would like to buy a some sort of hybrid filter. Could you point out a suitable filter? I will post some of the recent photos of my RES in the photo section. (I will later post some of the older ones, too. ;))

Best regards,

M. R.

:)

P. S. The shedding is also giving me nightmares, but I hope I will find all the answers I need on this amazing forum. :D
Last edited by firelord77 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
firelord77
 
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:39 pm   

You can see them here: http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6752

or...

If you want to avoid the hassle of loading the aforementioned page, just click here:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120 ... rtles1.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120 ... rtles2.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120 ... rtles3.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120 ... rtles4.jpg

To the admins: Sorry if these links are off topic. ;)

:)

M. R.

I hope email notification will work, because I'm looking forward to see your comments (please, don't use extremely harsh criticism, though ;))
firelord77
 
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:34 pm   

You will probably have to separate them. It seems that he's interested in mating but she's just not in the mood. This can happen sometimes.

For a good filter, check out the Equipment Review section. There are several recommendations from other members about the filters they use and their experiences with them.

Great looking guy and gal!
My babies: Tanner (RES), MR. Prissy & Ringo (budgies), Shinju (cockatiel)

"Little dudes are just eggs, we leave 'em on the beach to hatch, and then — koo-koo ka-choo! — they find their way back to the Big Ol' Blue"
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CountryGirl68
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:08 pm   

Do you mean 100 gallons or 100 liters ( which is only about 25 gallons)? Bigger is better.
"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -Antoine de Saint Exupery-
marisa
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:11 pm   

marisa wrote:Do you mean 100 gallons or 100 liters ( which is only about 25 gallons)? Bigger is better.


I meant 100l, but that was before the incident. :D Now I'm considering a bigger tank thanks to your suggestions. :)
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