Other Turtle Discussion :: Is this cruel?

[Lucky and Lucy Tortuga]

my lil wuckos are 7 years old going on 8.... I upgraded to a large tank that I bought them about 4 years ago. These are the dimensions:

60" long
24" high
16" deep
17" water level

I have a UVAB 100 watt bulb and there is a sun bathing shelf I had made to sit at water level so there is room to swim underneath or bathe on the rocks on top. the shelf is 19"x 16" area with a little less than that above water.

these lil babies are feisty though. really active.... I think.... they have been going through some changes, one had eggs twice this year. they eat ALOT. there are rocks and pebbles for them to sort through but not any plants. they used to have plants when they were tiny but they just shred anything up that I put in there. I couldnt afford to keep buying plants!

their dimensions are:

lucky: 8"x"6"
lucy 9" x 6.75"


they get into fights sometimes.... Lucy attacks Lucky mostly and I break it up. but it doesnt seem to happen much when I'm there.


I keep the water clean by switching it out every month sometimes less than a month. especially lately... they eat a lot and poop alot. i feed them reptomin pelets. and every once in a while a BANANA.

my question...... when I look at them, they are so bouncy and they beg for food all the time. one is getting quite FAT. I start to wonder about letting them go free in a pond that has access to food. I dont even know if there is a place like this in Los Angeles. I've heard about the Huntington Library.... or maybe the self realization spot on sunset near the beach. Those spots ar e both far away and I really want to be able to visit and see my lil BUCKOS to make sure they are doing ok and to continue to enjoy them. They seem like they are ready to be out in the world and to see all the interesting things that a pond life could offer. My oirginal plan otherwise was be to keep them for another year (maybe more) in this tank and eventually when I get a house I will build a pond for them. But until then I live in a breadbox size apartment.... their tank takes up one whole wall. so there's no chance of going with something bigger at this time........

is it cruel for them to be in these conditions for another 1-2 years??







thanks for your time.

[Lucky and Lucy Tortuga]

oops. I should have put this in another category. sorry Webmaster!!

[steve]

No problem... though you should lose the poll.

[topic moved]

[SpotsMama]

You have a 100 gallon tank - same size as mine. According to the rule of thumb, this is a tank big enough for 10"s of turtle measured lengthwise. You've got 17" turtle inches in there so they are somewhat squeezed. It's very hard to provide a single indoor aquarium big enough for two grown RES. Most people on here wind up with two aquariums when their turtles grow up or else build them an outdoor pond or else re-home one of them.

It would be cruel to release them into the wild at this stage. They are accustomed to being taken care of for a long time and wouldn't be able to fend for themselves. I think you occasionally have freezing temperatures which would be a hardship for them and they haven't had experience catching their own food. They wouldn't be afraid of people and would probably invite abuse by coming out begging to be fed. Also, they wouldn't have immunity to whatever diseases the resident turtles have.

I think they could survive another year or so in the size tank you have except that it sounds like they are beginning to fight. That's the most worrisome thing about the setup. They can very quickly hurt or even kill one another. Once the aggression starts it won't stop.

Would you be able to manage two smaller aquariums? There are some nice configurations on here of multiple aquariums for multiple turtles. There are photos of one L shaped configuration that seemed to be efficient spacewize. I'll see if I can find it and post the thread.

An alternative would be to find another home for one of them. Is that something you would consider?

[steve]

... though you should lose the poll.

BTW, I meant that you shouldn't put a poll in a question like this because it might not seem as serious; not that I expecting you to be voted as cruel

I agree with everything SpotsMama mentioned and re-homing one would be the best and easiest option if the aggression is uncontrollable. Perhaps a friend or relative can temporarily take ownership until you have the resources for an appropriate setup.

[industrial_girl_2000]

LOL, Steve!

Wow, 100 gallon tank, and a tank suitable for saltwater fish, good for you! I have one of the 90-gallon "saltwater fish" tanks for my Sheba & she loves it....more room to turn herself around & just "hangout" without touching the bottom with her feet.

Is there a possibility of giving one of the turtles away to a good home? Maybe just keep the 9 inch one even if the tank does take up a lot of space? It sounds like you have had these turtles for a very long time so they may not be able to function well in the wild without you (and honestly I think you will miss them when they are gone!). When a turtle is kept in captivity for a long time, they can actually forget how to hibernate, etc. It can be very stressful for them to re-integrate into nature after being in captivity for so long.

Would you sell the tank after giving the turtles away or would you be willing to give the tank away with at least one of the turtles?

[Lucky and Lucy Tortuga]

wow thanks for the replies everyone. Yes I was afraid that since they are raised domesticated for their entire lives that they would not be able to fend for themselves inthe wild......

they've fought here and there for 5 years now. at one point I had a clear acryllic barrier made that separated the tank into two sections because Lucky was biting Lucy's feet. They seemed to do it seasonally so I didnt consider giving one away. I still have the barrier. The fighting is rare and its not too violent. some biting and pecking. even though they occasionally fight, I wonder if they would become lonely if they were split up?

ok.... so I will keep them for now. I plan on eventually buying a house hopefully within a year.... I would LOVE to build a big pond for them in the backyard. protected from racoons of course. my lil Wuckos are so curious and active.... sometimes I interpret that activity as anxiety and a longing to explore the world...... I want my lil wuckos to be happy even if I have to give them away. which I wont for now......

[megcornell]

You may want to put that barrier back in for a while, or permanently, to give the turtles their own space. Another option is to put some plants in the water so that they aren't always in each other's line of sight, and feel a little less invaded upon. If the fighting happens in certain circumstances, such as feeding time, reduce it by feeding them at opposite ends of the tank or by taking the aggressor out and feeding her elsewhere. Or, if they fight over basking space why not set up a basking dock at each end of the tank?
IF you decide to separate the tank, don't worry about them being lonely, not only can they still see each other, but turtles really are more solitary than social creatures... and really don't need other turtle friends.
It sounds like you've got a few options going, and hopefully a pond in a year or two, so I think you've made a good call by keeping them both for now... and you've definitely saved their lives by realizing they are not releasable. Pet turtles quite enjoy having their food brought to them in their heated tanks as opposed to hunting and freezing in the wild

[industrial_girl_2000]

Turtles are fairly solitary, so they won't miss the other if they were split up. Turtles aren't animals who "mate for life" so they don't form any kinds of attachments to other turtles. In a turtle's mind, other turtles are the "competition" for everything including food.

My Sheba has been on her own for 6-7 yrs now (ever since I had to give her tank mate away because the vicious/loud fighting between them would literally wake the dead!).

[Andrew7769]

if you dont already you should buy a filter that is sutable for that tank

[Kayra33]

Industrial Girl:

I never did ask you how did you choose which turtle to give away?

[Safdar]

Industrial Girl:

I never did ask you how did you choose which turtle to give away?

I would never be able to make a descion like that

Dictionary.com describes cruel as......

1. willfully or knowingly causing pain or distress to others.
2. enjoying the pain or distress of others

I think cruel is a harsh word, since you love your turtles soo much and have got them all these things

Cruel would be to keep them in the "death bowls" they came in. and not spend a lick of money on equipment

[Lucky and Lucy Tortuga]

if you dont already you should buy a filter that is sutable for that tank

I have a pretty decent filter. Its an Eheim pro 3 level filter. it seems to do a good job. I have a system of hoses that I connect to the shower so I can change out their water without taking them out. I do that when the water tints green. and every month or so I clean out the filter media....

yeah I guess cruel might be a harsh word. perhaps inhumane would have been a better choice. I'm at 50% on the poll though so half of the responders consider me to be cruel

[Safdar]

Dont be hard on yourself, your trying your best and youve done so much already.

I dont know why people voted yes on the poll (you shouldn have put a poll)

Some people dont even want to spend 10 bucks, but you have done so much, and i think after you did so much, the word cruel is out of question.

Dont take those votes seriosuly.
You have the passion take care of your turtles and love them
The only thing stoping you is other worldly issues

Cruel would be willingly not doing naything when you have the capacity.

In this situation sending them off for adoption is a good choice.
This would be hr best thing for them to do and you are a wonderufl person to care about their happyness

Cheer up