Urgent Care :: Lethargic RES, victim of aggression? New turtle owner!!

[djuna]

We have two RES that we got at the end of July. They were each about 2" in diameter when we got them. The tank is 5 gallons, has about 4-5" of water, with a basking platform just above the water line. There is a filter meant for a 10 gallon tank and a UVB clip light that keeps the water temperature at 78-80. I'm sure the basking temp. is higher than that. At first, the turtles didn't eat much, but when they started eating, we figured we had the environment right. They were swimming and eating and basking well. Suddenly, though, one turtle (Franklin) has grown about an inch in diameter, and begs for food when you walk in the room. He also often is found on top of the other turtle, but I thought they were too young for that sort of thing! Meanwhile, the other turtle (Annabelle) is not eating as well, has become increasing lethargic and basks most of the day. We have found her sleeping with her back legs splayed out behind her. We thought she was dead, but she wasn't. Her shell looks fine to me. From the website, I'm guessing she may be a victim of Franklin's aggression. She doesn't appear to have any breathing or swimming problems. Other opinions? Advice? I'm worried about her!

[jenaero]

I can think of a few things. Number one, get a bigger tank. Two 2 inch turtles need a minimum of a 40 gallon tank so I can't imagine them being happy in 7. Once that's done, you'll be able to regulate the water and basking temps. Go get a thermometer because guessing at basking and water temps is no good. It's important to know exact temps.

As far as being on top of eachother while basking, it's totally normal. Turts just like to stack.

I can't see one being a victim of the other's aggression when there are no signs of it. Have you seen them nipping at eachother at all? Does she have any wounds?

I'm not going to guess at what may be wrong with her but not eating is never a good sign. I think once you get the space and temps straight she may perk right up.

[sonyj]

It could be aggression if you've noticed them seeming to fight with each other or bite at each other. If they haven't it may just be lack of a good environment, like Jen said.

The one thing that makes me think aggression is the size of tank you have. The minimum size tank for a turtle is 10gallons per inch of turtle. Therefore to start off with you needed at least a forty gallon if your turtles were 2in each. And then you needed the water level as high as you can fill it without giving them room to escape. If they were forced to live it such a small space it could cause aggression (territorial disputes) along with possible illness.

You said that your UVB light kept the water temp at 78-80. Well, a UVB light does not give off any heat whatsoever. Sounds like you just have a UVA light. They do need both kinds. Water temp should be a constant 75 for older turtles and 78 for hatchlings with the basking temp about 90 or at least 10 degrees more than the water temp.

Have you read any on the main site?:
www.redearslider.com

There's a lot of great info on there to help you and your turtles....

Sorry I couldn't be help more....

And welcome to the forum...

[cam722]

The only thing I can add here is that the way she's basking.. all stretched out is normal.. many here call it the superman pose.

How do you know she's not eating? Do you hand feed them? Is perhaps the other turtle gobbling up all the food before the other gets a chance to eat? Also, what is their diet like?

[steve]

I would seperate them for now. I would think most hatchlings are timid and not aggressive and you need to make sure both get their share of food. Since they are still small, it is not expensive to invest in 2 seperate setups for the moment.

[djuna]

Wow! Thank you all for these great responses. To respond to some of the questions: 1) they eat turtle pellets; so far they've ignored any vegetable offerings [I've read they may be too young to be interested in these]; 2) she has no nips or wounds that I can see, and I haven't seen him try to hurt her, but he does push her out of the way and grab as much food as he can. To compensate for these behaviors, we try to feed them separately within the tank -- we have seen her eating, just not nearly as much as he does or as quickly [for all I know she's eating plenty when we're not around, but she's not growing the way he is]; 3) I'm glad to hear the superman pose is normal -- it makes me feel a little better; 4) the light I have is I think a UVA/UVB combo light (ordered from another RES website); I know the water temperature is 78-80 because I have a thermometer for the water; I think the air temperature is warmer than that because it's a small tank and it feels pretty warm -- the light burns our fingers at the end of the day when we turn it off. 5) she is rather shy to begin with -- where Franklin will start begging for food when we walk in the room, she would jump off the platform and hide when we came in, at least before she became lethargic and spent all her time basking.

I will try separating them at least for feeding until we can get them larger living quarters. In the meantime, my follow-up questions for all of you is whether it's normal for one turtle to grow so much faster than the other? And also, how frequently do you need to change the water when you have a filter? And finally, I didn't know the rule about feeding in relation to head proportion before looking at this site -- I think Franklin may be overeating, because lately we've been feeding him whenever he begs, and he is growing faster than your website says turtles typically grow -- what bad things can this result in?

[jenaero]

Overfeeding can lead to all kinds of problems. Pyramiding, overgrowth, organ failure, obesity. I know it's hard to resist the begging, but they depend on us to take care of them.

[sonyj]

Wow! Thank you all for these great responses. To respond to some of the questions: 1) they eat turtle pellets; so far they've ignored any vegetable offerings [I've read they may be too young to be interested in these]...

I started offering Koopa veggies as soon as we got him. He was a very new hatchling probably less than a couple of weeks old (estimated guess). At first he didn't take to the veggies but I kept putting them in the tank daily until about a week or so later he began nibbling them. So now he's three months old and eats his veggies like a little pig. Just keep trying the veggies (variety is good) and you'll be happier that he's eating something good for him. And that way when he begs and looks so cute, you can offer lettuce or carrots etc instead of something high in protien that he doesn't need too much of.

[STRAYKINGFISHER]

Well, all that is left for me to do is to add a visual aid

[JessicaTS]

lol SKF, you've got som pretty interesting stuff

[cam722]

Ahhh SKF.. I've missed you and your wonderful sense of humor..