Urgent Care :: RES with neurological damage!!!!

[Ellielpn]

Hi this is my 1st post here, since I got my 1st turt a couple months ago- this site has been my best friend- Thanks to everyone for all the valuable insight and info!! I had hoped I'd never have to post anything in this section, but tragedy has struck :o( Sorry I this post is so long- I just wanted to tell u guys everything. Here goes-

My baby RES, MoMo, who is about 1&1/2 inches, had most of her tail bit off by another baby turtle, we have 3 lil guys in all(they are so small now that we had them all in a 10 gallon when it happened,) right away we separated the aggressive turtle, and put the other two into a long 20 gallon. I periodically dry docked the injured one (when I medicated her w/ triple antibiotic) on and off for a few days and it seems to be healing pretty well. About a week later she started acting really funny; hyper-extending the head, (all the way back so its resting on her shell) and she stays like that most of the time, swimming in circles and sommersaulting in the water, i guess because her head stays so hyperextended her little body just follows behind, lop-sided swimming, strange side-to-side head bobbing, and worst of all she couldn't bite her food- its like she couldn't even find it- she just bites into thin air (or H2O)-she seems to know its close but bites and misses her reptomins by a long shot! I had to hold her still and put the food right into her mouth. She still had a good appetite.
Took her to the herp vet the very next day, he ruled out a resp infection and said it looked like her tail was healing up well. He said it is neurologic, but that he'd never seen anything like this, esp in such a young turtle. We tossed around the idea that maybe she banged into something in her tank- but he said it would take repeated trauma to cause something like this, and I've really never seen her crash before. (she came from horrible conditions before we took her home, she probably was banged around a lot back then- in that gross water they sold her in, but these symptoms only manifested weeks after she'd been home w/ us) He gave her a vit A shot (i guess just to rule out a deficiency as that could affect her eyesight.) Anyway he said to watch her over the next week and to let him know then how she is. He also said he'd do some research and that we'll figure this out. He was so nice :o)
So its only been 2 days since the vet and our baby is even worse now, I can't get her to eat anything- even if I press the stick right up to her mouth w/ tweezers. She sleeps most of the day, and almost every time she goes for a swim she ends up on the bottom of the tank upside down w/ her legs up in air!! Its horrible- I keep thinking she's gone this time. I wonder if she's been 02 deprived down there? Also, mostly when I pick her up now her legs just dangle and she doesn't ever hide in her shell- she's always been friendly and rarely tries to wiggle out of our hands or run away, but this is bordering on unresponsive at times.I guess it's not looking so good.

Here's a vid of her swimming all crazy: (Sorry it uploaded sideways)


And some pics of MoMo and her hyper-extended neck:






And the tanks ("bad" turt's in the 10g for the moment):



I'd appreciate any advice/info. Has anyone ever had a turtle w/ neurological damage this bad? Or even any neurological condition? Is there anything I can do to get her to eat, or help her get better for that matter? How could this happen? Can she survive this way if I can eventually get her to eat?? This is just too sad.

PS: OMG!!! Just before I posted this I tried to feed her again (for like, the 7th time today) I forced open her mouth and actually got her to take a total of almost 3 sticks!!!!!! I had to use the tweezers again, but only had to force her the 1st time the other times i just held her still and and held the food to her right side (she always bites far to the right(almost bit her front foot!) and she ate, thank god!

Stats:
How big is your turtle? MoMo, the sick one is about 1&1/2 -2 inch (her tail is MIA now so it's somewhere in that ballpark.) The aggressor, Morla (name's from the Neverending Story- remember, "The Ancient One" who sneezed all the time! :o) is about 2 1/2" and the middle child, Munin is about 2".
How long have you had it? 1 month (But Morla was here a month before that, I guess thats why she got territorial and attacked)

What is the water temperature? 78
Did you use a thermometer? Y
Are you using a water heater? not now it's HOT out
How much water is in there? she's in a 20G long which is 3/4 filled
Are you using a water conditioner? Y
Are you using any filtration? Y

What is the basking temperature? unknown
Is there a basking light? Y
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Y
What kind is it or what is it made out of? turtle floating dock
Is there a UVB light? Y

What have you been trying to feed it? reptomin (the "baby" sticks), leafy greens (i know, not spinach or iceberg;o), and as a treat that gammarus stuff. There's also some small guppies in the tanks but they haven't eaten any yet.
When was the last time your turtle ate? almost 48 hours now!!!!!!!

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 20 gallon long
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes, MoMo basks regardless, but the others I noticed weren't, so I covered the front of the tanks where their basking areas are and now they bask more.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Y
Have you searched the forums for similar situations?
yes- I can't really find anything anywhere about turts w/ neurological disorders.

[blackforces get you]

oh dear that looks really bad. i dont know what to say but ill keep you updated and see what i can find out about neurological disorders

[blackforces get you]

this is all i could get. but other than that i hope this helps

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/disorder_index.htm

[jozzep]

That video broke my heart.....30 sec would have been more than enough.
Maybe having it euthanised should be a though to consider.Seems like he's suffering really bad.

[Ellielpn]

I know, there seems to be nothing out there on turts w/ prob like this, thanx for the info anyway.

And she's only been this sick a few days now- I think I'm still holding out some hope. Gonna see the vet again today to weigh out some options I guess. I cry and cringe when I see her struggling like this :o(
Thanx

This is how I'll try to remember her if we have to say goodbye (normal MoMo vid, eating a big piece of lettuce!):

[steve]

One of my RES went though something similar. He eventually came out of it (it took several months) and aside from severe pyramiding (I'll explain later) he's fine. I'm not sure if this will work for your turtle, but you can only try.

First thing is to take your turtle out of the water ASAP.
Next, set up a dry area for him to stay comfortable in. He might be dry-docked for a long time.
You'll need to find things for him to eat that he will find irresistible. For me, rosey red minnows would work. He would constantly miss his food, and would stop trying. My RES would keep trying to get the minnows though. Hold them by the tail and he will eventually get them. I often would move it over right before the tried to bite them since I can anticipate how far he would miss them. However, that lead to some pyramiding which will be permanent.

There will be other things you can do if the initial steps work, like regular soakings and trying to mix up the diet.

[KatieSmeltzer]

That's such a sad story. I'm so sorry to hear about your little guy!

[Ellielpn]

Thanks Steve. I'll try that. Why the dry docking? I've been scared to leave her alone in her tank- she has really hard time swimming. How long is it ok to dry dock her? Also I have a big tupperware that I feed them in, should I maybe set this up w/ shallow water for a new habitat for her? And should the dry dock be in direct UVB? Sorry if these are silly questions- I'm still new :o) Oh and I know what u mean about holding the food at the right spot where she'll bite! MoMo's been only getting her food when I put it in her face then hold it way out to the right and behind her! so sad.

Oh and thnx Katie, MoMo's about the same size as your Fil, good luck w/ him!

[TheComputerGremlin]

Dry docking would be just keeping her in a dry tank, preferably with a soft towel or cloth on the bottom. Don't do anything with the bulbs at this time because she might overheat and have no way to cool down. If your room is cooler, you can try an undertank heater or something to warm it up a bit. Basically you are going to treat your RES as a land turtle for a while.

However, she needs to take a dip in the water for eating/rehydrating/drinking/etc. still. You can try a solution of 50% pedialyte/water instead of just water so she gets some extra help healing. I think you should give her a dip at least twice a day for a few minutes. I'd do that in shallower water for now.

Hopefully after a few days, you'll see some improvement and can maybe then try a shallow water tank for a while too.

That video was so hard to watch ...

[Ellielpn]

Thanx- that's what I was worried about- her not being able to cool off and overheating- but she's now dry docked for the night in a tupperware w/ a soft towel and sleeping peacefully (and now I don't have to worry about her drowning- I haven't slept through the night the past few nights... I keep running out to check on her!) I'll give a dip in shallow water in the AM and try to feed her a guppy too- I'm getting so much better at getting her to eat. I'll p/u some pedialyte tomorrow too.

Thanks sooo much everyone! Me and MoMo appreciate it.

[steve]

Jax explained it very well. This was very difficult to deal with, I hope things get better soon.

[theartbook35]

One woman on here, "tammi", her turtle's rear legs were damaged by burns and the little one has lost a lot of mobility. Maybe you can ask her for some advice.

I'm still learning to understand how turtles swim... But I wouldn't be at all surprised if their tails help them balance out in the water, or act like a rudder, or both.

[Ellielpn]

Yeah, All this happened to her w/in a week of her tail being bit off (it was bit all the way to the cloaca. The cloaca didn't seem damaged but it was swollen for a while.) The vet said it didn't seem to have anything to do w/ the neuro probs tho. Could it be plausible that her tail being gone made her swim all wacky (for lack of a better term,) and maybe she caused herself some trauma that way?
God, I hate this sooo much!!!

So she's been dry-docked for a couple days now- and to be honest (I totally didn't expect this, but) she looks a bit better!!! She's still a mess but now when I soak her she actually swims normally (if a bit lop-sided) about 75% of the time- before the only way she was swimming all the time was what u saw in that awful vid. She still sleeps most of the day, (is that normal for some turts anyway??) and still does that weird neck-extension thing (tho that is also not as often as before, and she seems to have a fair appetite (i can't seem to get that damned guppy into her yet :o) tho she's doing well w/ the pellets!
I'll keep you all updated...
Thanx Again...

[Turtle11]

i know how you feel about not being able to sleep well and thinking your turtle might be gone

hope she gets better

[bover907]

Any update on the gipper?