General Care Discussion :: pH question

Taking care of your turtle's overall health.

Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:07 am   pH question

The water in DC is reeeeeeally hard and the pH is pretty high as far as I can tell. I have a tester that only reads up to 7.6, but judging by the amount of pH decrease it takes to change that reading, I think the actual number is past 8.

Oliver sheds his skin constantly. His water temp is 75, he is not overfed, he MAY be going through a growth spurt because he was underfed for the first 3 years of his life, but other than that I've ruled out all of the potential causes of excessive shedding except...fungus. Which I've read is encouraged by a pH that's too high. I've got to get that number down, but here are my questions:

1. In a 55gal tank or bigger, am I going to be using an excessive amount of pH decrease to keep it below 8.0?

2. Do all pH decrease brands kill good bacteria in the filter? What's better if I have to choose--regulated pH or dead beneficial bacteria?

3. I've read that vinegar is safe to use, but I would have to use quite a bit of it to regulate the pH in here. Is it really safe?

4. Is there some other way to reduce the pH other than buying 50 gallons of distilled water every month?

Thanks for your help!
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laurapa
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:43 pm   

Bacteria can survive a couple of points above and below of the neutral of 7. For the most part, bacteria will survive a slow change but I am not sure if you changed it from 8 to 6 in a very short time it would hurt the bacteria. The best would be to drop it to, as close as you can, to 7. Make sure that you are keeping up with the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:35 pm   

I know that peat can lower the ph of your tank, and I've seen peat inserts for filters, but I personally haven't had experience with that, so you may want to wait for input from someone who has...
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BullDog
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:50 pm   

Constant skin shedding isn't necessarily a symptom of fungus and isn't always indicative of a problem (my female RES likes to shed a lot). You might not need to do anything... how often are you doing water changes?
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steve
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:09 pm   

What makes you suspect a fungus---does the underlying skin look healthy?

If he's not going through a growth spurt, the shedding shouldn't really been constant. How long has he been shedding? Are the same areas repeatedly shedding?
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:05 am   

Why don't you get a ph test that will give you a better idea of what your ph actually is? Aquarium Pharmeceuticals makes good tests. There's a "ph test" that measures up to around 7.6 and a "high ph" test that measures from 7.4 to 8.8. You can get both in a kit called Freshwater Master Test Kit that also includes tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It's very nice. It would be better to know what's really going on if you're going to be adding Ph down - which is just sulfuric acid, strong stuff.

The number one thing to be sure of if you think your turtle is having skin problems is to be sure his water is clean. Poor water quality is the source of skin infections. If you aren't testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, you should do this when you get a Freshwater Master Test kit like mentioned above for testing ph.

On your specific questions,

1. You won't be using an excessive amount of ph down to lower the ph in a 55 gallon tank or larger. That's not really terribly large. People lower the ph in ponds with hundreds of gallons of water in them.

2. Don't choose between having a low ph and killing the good bacteria in your tank. You should have both - a reasonable ph and healthy good bacteria. You won't be lowering ph in order to kill fungus - you'll be using it to move the ph into a moderate range that doesn't encourage the growth of fungus.

3. I never heard of using vinegar to lower ph in a tank. If you can't find a good, reputable authoritative source confirming that this is feasible, you probably shouldn't try it.

4. People do use peat to lower ph. I've never tried it but you can probably do a google search and find out about it or search this or some of the other good forums for first hand accounts. Other than peat and ph down, I don't know of any other way to lower ph.

You do have to be careful with lowering ph too much or too fast, speaking from personal experience. I lowered Spot's tank water to below 6.8 (don't know exactly what it was) and the bacteria were killed and the tank cycled all over like a new tank. Add ph down very slowly and always dilute it before adding it to the tank. It may take days or weeks to lower the ph a significant amount when you're first getting started.

Something else you can do to help protect against various skin and shell problems is add a little bit of salt to the water. Use only aquarium salt for freshwater tanks - no table salt and no saltwater tank salt. The rule of thumb I've heard is to use half as much of the salt as is recommended in the instructions.

Remember that salt doesn't evaporate when water does, so as water evaporates the salt concentration gets higher. When you add water to replace water that's evaporated, you don't need to add more salt. However, when you drain out water and replace it with new, then you have removed salt and will need to replace it. I'd recommend getting a test kit for salinity so you can be sure you know what's going on.

If you're sure your turtle has some sort of skin infection you should probably consult a vet. There are medications and soaks that a vet could recommend based on what the specific problem is.

How are your turtle's eyes? Any swelling, irritation?
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