General Care Discussion :: pregnant

[Bumby's Mom]

You aren't killing anything by freezing the eggs. The embryos don't even start developing for a certain length of time so there is nothing in there. If everyone hatched every single egg that was ever laid the world would be overrun with animals.

[TheComputerGremlin]

So people say it's responsible when you spay or neuter your cat or dog, but when you terminate eggs that may or may not hatch anyways, it's bad? If I had the option of spaying or neutering my turtle, I totally would. But there is that shell that hinders such a procedure.

And say what you want about copy/pasting the same old story onto these threads, but think about it one of the two most popular views:

God (or whatever deity) placed animals under our care and we are responsible for the animals on this earth. That includes the responsibility to not allow for animals to be produced that cannot be taken care of. Let's say you let your turtle hatch 50 babies a year and you keep one or two and give the other to a pet store. The pet store abuses them through neglect, eventually leading to some of their deaths and some of them being sold. Most of those sold go to neglectful owners who think that "baby turtles only live for two years like fish" and the turtles die. So by allowing the eggs to come to term, you are sentencing 98% of the turtles born to death. Good job, God's proud of you.

Or the evolution standpoint. You let your turtle have 50 babies a year and you leave them in the tank. Your older turtles (who are their parents) kill the younger turtles due to competition for food and space. A few survive, leading to twice or three times as many the next year and the process repeats.

Ultimately it ends the same: More turtles die than live. In a perfect world, we wouldn't keep turtles captive, wouldn't be infringing on their natural habitat, and they wouldn't be spreading and killing off other ecosystems.

And honestly, you have to provide such a proper hatching area, most new or inexperienced keepers won't be able to bring the eggs to term anyways. Turtles aren't like birds, once those eggs are popped out, they are done with them.

And not all pet stores will take baby turtles. Most pet stores will get in LEGAL trouble for having any turtles under 4" on the premises. And they certainly aren't going to raise them to 4" before selling them. Crack or boil the eggs and throw them out. Or keep your turtles separate.

[Nettle]

Thank you ComputerGremlin.

[1981camaroz28]

LOL

[imderanged]

My mother and I were just having this discussion today, But about parakeet eggs. Parakeets are more social then turtles...and she has these two parakeets, one male and one female, in separate cages, but right next to each other. They are not terribly friendly to people, and all day they talk to eachother through the bars. Its obvious they would be happier in the same cage. I told her we should put them in the same cage and just get rid of the eggs but she told me she couldn't just throw out the eggs! I can see her side of it, but I just don't personally view the newly laid (and therfore very undeveloped) eggs as the same thing as a baby bird. I am most concerned with the care of the animals that are already here and that I have a respnsibility to. Homestly, I can provide better care to two parakeets than I can to 20.

@computer gremlin...I agree with much of what you said...the only objection I have is that as someone who believes in evolution, I don't think letting your captive turtles breed in an artifical enviornment, devoid of competition and then allowing the babies to be eaten with no means of escape (in nature they would be able to hide, or leave the area entirely) has anything to do with natural selection or evolution. Just my 2 cents.

[Bumby's Mom]

Even with birds there is a (approximately) 7 day window. The embryos don't even form until the mother lays all of the eggs and starts incubating them at the proper temperature. Once something forms inside of the eggs it is a different story.
Just think if your turtle lays 12 eggs. Do you honestly have space for 12 10+inch turtles? I really doubt you do and if you hatch eggs without having a home for them it is extremely irresponsible, its the same with any animal. If it doesn't have a home to go to it will be dumped and then it will die a horrible death.
Also, does anyone eat chicken eggs? Do you realize chickens are attached to those eggs and get depressed when they are taken away? You don't know if the eggs you get from a store are fertile or not but no one ever thinks about that.

[taylor_a]

@computer gremlin...I agree with much of what you said...the only objection I have is that as someone who believes in evolution, I don't think letting your captive turtles breed in an artifical enviornment, devoid of competition and then allowing the babies to be eaten with no means of escape (in nature they would be able to hide, or leave the area entirely) has anything to do with natural selection or evolution. Just my 2 cents.

It can be looked at as artificial selection, which has everything to do with evolution.

Plus I think he's more referring to the behaviours rather than the selection process. The behaviours are instinctual, and are a product of evolution.

[octpusgirl8]

I have a hard time believeing that where you are RES are "like gold" anyway. In Bucks County (not that far away from south Philly) i see RES in Petsmarts/Petcos all the time, just like i do around where i live. They aren't any more expensive, nor are they better cared for. About a year ago, a member living in Philly found a bunch of hatchling RES swimming around in the Schuylkill that had been dumped there, probably by the "black market" turtle vendors that illegally sell hatchling RES in Philly. So we're not just making things up when we say that there are lots of turtles that need homes.

[DetroitRebelle]

I'm not separating them. I was given two for a reason. Like I said, I'll worry about it when the time comes. I'm not even 100% sure one is a boy and one is a girl yet.

[crackerlady2007]

DetroitRebelle, you hit it right on! I have a set too and I wouldn't separate them for the world. As you said though, I'll worry about that when the time comes.

[TheComputerGremlin]

Well, the thing is, sure, the turtles we have are in captivity, which means no ability to escape. It also means that they'll be able to hatch. In nature, I doubt that whole clutches hatch due to environmental stresses, egg theft, baby turtles born and eaten quickly afterwards. All the more reason that when you see a RES in the wild, you can appreciate that so far, it's beating the odds!

And personally, I could never kill the eggs, it'd be too hard. That's why, thank goodness, I only have one turtle. And if I had two and discovered this board in time, I'd have separated them ASAP. That way, I would never have to make that decision.

I'm just a huge proponent of birth control, both animal and human. I feel that so often life is wasted and life becomes worth a little less each time. And it saddens me. Which is why I'm in favor of being proactive and taking precautions.

[hdaisog]

I can see how some parts of the country they might be difficult to find, but as far as I know in most places they are either illegal or pretty easy to get. Petfinder.com seems to be the easiest place to find homeless turtles. Here there is a big reptile rescue and you can walk into any Petco or Petsmart and buy one or ten if you want.

I also wouldn't be able to give the turtles to a pet store because the pet store employees seem to rarely tell people how to properly care for the turtles.

Its probably one of those arguments that everyone is going to have their own opinion that cannot be swayed. I just know that I foster RES pretty often for the local animal shelter and it is very difficult to find homes for them. I'm not sure how many are put to sleep a year, but my house is maxed out at 5 foster turtles. There are probably 5+ brought in every week to the shelter. I would guess at least 5 are put to sleep every week. And this is just for one shelter in town.