General Care Discussion :: cohabitation with dojo loaches?

[Bascomb]

sci-bin If you have a cold water fish and a turtle who needs 78 degree water and a basking area of 91 degrees you may have a problem. Maybe that is your method of slowing down the turtle. Don't forget the uvb lighting. Good Luck b.

[scriabin]

Look, I don't want to fight about it. I get it that most of you don't keep fish with your turtles and don't think it can be done - I won't bring it up again.

[scriabin]

that's a very good point bascomb, that's a good reason not to keep dojos and turtles together - I totally wasn't thinking. Maybe that's why I made the post, because I knew I was forgetting something important, but I didn't know what. A turtle pond would have to be heated. A dojo pond (in southern california) might not need to be - totally incompatible species. My bad.

My turtles are in perfectly warm water and I'm giving them their UVB thank you.

[scriabin]

One more point and then I'm going to let the matter go -

It is possible that in many of these cases of "disappearing fish" - that the large fish first died of natural (or who knows, unnatural) causes and the turtle quickly disposed of the lifeless body while it was still rich with nutrients and enzymes, rather than let it foul the water? I bought six feeders when I adopted my turtles and they never showed any interest - until the feeders died (from ammonia poisoning, I'm guilty to say) and then they vanished almost instantly.

I am not arguing that turtles don't like to hunt and and eat fish, I know that is part of their nature. maybe I just spent too much time sitting with the tortoises on the Galapagos so I am biased toward terrapins as wise, peaceful, and discerning creatures.

Anyway, we don't have to agree - and I don't even have a strong opinion except that I would like to see for myself before I make up my mind for sure - I appreciate all your warnings - I will proceed very cautiously (the truth is, I will feel guilty about every eaten fish).

Thank you and goodnight!!

[steve]

I think if any fish were to survive, they would need more water volume and extra cover/hiding areas. Loaches do get big, so they might intimidate smaller RES. While I'm not sure how fast loaches are, RES will usually not pass up a good opportunity. Other distractions/food sources for the turtles would be helpful... maybe lots of basking areas and aquatic plants.

[scriabin]

Oh totally, Steve - I agree - the more spacious/oxygenated/comfortable/healthy the environment, the more relaxed everyone will be!

But Bascomb made a good point about the loaches - Dojo loaches have temp parameters much closer to goldfish (apparently there is now a healthy wild population in California - they came from Japan/Korea originally) - and RES need warmer water, so it wouldn't be a good match for that reason alone. Kuhli loaches are tropical but probably too small. Clown Loaches are bigger and tropical but I don't know anything about them...

[roseK]

certain fish (puffers and dojo loaches for example) can be raised to recognize/trust/interact with their keepers and can be hand fed.

If you're telling me that reptiles can't learn from and adapt to their environment in a rudimentary way, then we just disagree.

thats not the same as trying to raise them to a different temperment towards other fish and reptiles. you cant train your turtle to not eat fish, the turtle just decides it, u cannot train a fish to not jump out of water or not attack other fish, its instintual and they are too simple minded of creatures

[scriabin]

Good morning!

Okay RoseK - I think for the most part that is true - but I think some fish are smarter (and more personable) than others and you shouldn't judge a life-form entirely by it's scientific classification - Octopuses are incredibly intelligent, and they're invertebrates!!! I'm just saying it might not be as rigid as you think.

I don't agree that all animals (or even all cold blooded animals) are simple minded, although certainly most seem to be. I think reptiles can learn from their environment and adapt, which is all "training" is, really. For example, raise turtles in a small, unhealthy environment without enough space or food and with abusive humans, I would bet you'd end up with aggressive, territorial, human-biting turtles - because those behaviors are inevitable in those conditions and become ingrained over time. I agree with you also that some turtles are just especially aggressive and territorial anyway, and like to bite - it's their personality (their genes or soul, depending on your belief system) I guess I just personally want to give them a little more credit - if they're as small minded and mechanical as you seem to be painting them (maybe I have misunderstood you), then I'm less enthusiastic about keeping them around.

Sorry if I offended.

Jonathan

[Sassamo]

Yes I also believe animals are much smarter then people think. However eating fish is not a learned/trained behavor it is instinct. Something that maybe could be bred out of turtles in very many many generations, look at what man kind did turing wolves into cocker spaniels(I have one too lol). But who would have the time and resorces too do all that? Really what would the point be so fish and turtles could co-habit? We turned wolves into companions, protecters and hunters too better our species. Taking the fish eating instinct away from a turtle could lead too totally dependant on humans turtles. Now think if some one dumps their turtle in a pond it will die since it has no idea how too be a real turtle.
I have a convict living with my turtle now, he's been in there since he was a fry. I call him her "pet" I know one day he will become a snack.

[scriabin]

Well, "eating fish" might be instinct on one level, but on another level, RES are omnivores with their own individual tastes, and a tendency to become more herbivorous as they age - so again, I don't know if the genetic programming (or whatever) is necessarily as rigid as you're making it out to be. I'm not going to try to get my turtles to peacefully cohabitate with guppies, anymore than I would try to get them to cohabitate with piranhas, but there are other fish in the sea.

Everyone already has their mind made up, so why discuss it? I could come back in 20 years and say, hey guess what, I never lost a single fish! and you all would be like... you're just lucky, any day now that fish will be a snack!...

I am listening to all of you by the way ... at this point you've almost got me too scared to even try it...