General Care Discussion :: my turtle's size and shell condition Updated: with pics

[hiddenpassions]

My turtle is about 9 years old and she is only 5 inches. Most of her life she wasn't fed or housed properly, didn't have a water heater, or proper lighting (I've had a UVB bulb for a while, but it was shining through plastic). I've read through most of the posts about turtle size, but i'm still wondering if she will grow larger now that she's in a bigger aquarium (it's still only a 30, she was in a 10 before) with a heater, eating better, and i'll be getting her proper lighting next weekend. She has grown a little each time i've moved her to a larger enclosure, but she's 9 years old now. Have i permanently stunted her growth? I'm mainly only wondering because i keep passing up chances to get bigger tanks trying to save for 120 gallons, and that's silly if she may never need one that large.

Also, i think she may have MBD, but now that i've been reading more about it, i'm not sure anymore. Her shell seems soft to me, and seems like it's sunken in where it shouldn't be, but i may be exaggerating those effects in my head because i feel so guilty. It's not turned up at the edges, which i've read is a common symptom. I'm pretty sure she has retained scutes too. Maybe that is part of why her shell looks odd to me. I'd like to post pictures of her shell later today after i clean it was a toothbrush and let her dry. Maybe when i do you guys can let me know what you think.

Other than her size and shell condition she seems healthy to me. She's active, eats well, her eyes are bright and clear, she's never seemed sick. I really hope she isn't suffering and will get healthier now that i'm caring for her better, but it would be good if she didn't grow to full size. I'll be able to get her a 55 or 75 gallon aquarium much easier than a 120.

I'll try to get pictures up soon and then you guys can give me opinions on how bad it is.

Peace,
Cherry

[SpotsMama]

It's good of you to be trying to find out how to take care of her. It's hard to know how to take care of an aquatic turtle - it took me several years before I found this site. Don't let feeling guilty get in the way of your finding out what to do - just proceed as you are doing now.

She is quite undersized for her age. One thing you might do to give her more space right away is to house her in a rubbermaid tub or stock tank - at least for awhile. You can get a big one quite inexpensively. I got a 50 gallon rubbermaid tub from Lowes for about $17.

I would be very helpful to see a picture of her, and also her setup. Also, there is a set of questions at the beginning of the Urgent Care section - could you please answer them here?

[hiddenpassions]

Here ya go. I still need to get some pics of her today. I also looked up vets for her on a list on here this morning.

How big is your turtle? 5 inches
How long have you had it? almost 9 years

What is the water temperature? 78 degrees
Did you use a thermometer? yes
Are you using a water heater? yes
How much water is in there? probably about 25 gallons maybe a little more
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? Eheim classic 2215 canister

What is the basking temperature? not sure, no thermometer yet
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? cork bark
Is there a UVB light? not a proper one, this weekend i'll be getting one

What have you been trying to feed it? Reptomin pellets/ green leaf lettuce alternating every other day, carrots once weekly
When was the last time your turtle ate? last night

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 30 gallons
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? no

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? no, aside from what i already mentioned about her size and shell

Peace,
Cherry

[octpusgirl8]

The lack of UVB lighting is most likely what's causing problems for you. They need UVB rays to utilize the calcium in their diet. Going forward, in addition to providing UVB, give her cuttlebone to munch on to provide her with an extra source of calcium. You can usually find it in the pet bird section of the pet store, one side of it will have a hard layer which you'll need to chip away.

A bigger tank is also important for her, which you already know. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get a 120 gallon tank, but more than likely a 75 gallon would do it.

As far as the condition of her shell goes, we'll just have to wait for pictures to see about that. The important thing is, you've found all the right care info now, and you're doing your best to get things right for her, and that's awesome. She'll be forever grateful!

[hiddenpassions]

The lack of UVB lighting is most likely what's causing problems for you. They need UVB rays to utilize the calcium in their diet. Going forward, in addition to providing UVB, give her cuttlebone to munch on to provide her with an extra source of calcium. You can usually find it in the pet bird section of the pet store, one side of it will have a hard layer which you'll need to chip away.

A bigger tank is also important for her, which you already know. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get a 120 gallon tank, but more than likely a 75 gallon would do it.

As far as the condition of her shell goes, we'll just have to wait for pictures to see about that. The important thing is, you've found all the right care info now, and you're doing your best to get things right for her, and that's awesome. She'll be forever grateful!

I was going to get her some cuttlebones this weekend too, with 6 bucks i still have on a Petco card. After getting her UVB and basking thermometer taken care of i'll definitely be saving for a larger aquarium. If i don't have one by Feb. i may be able to use tax money to get one. Thanks for your input.

Peace,
Cherry

[hiddenpassions]

It's good of you to be trying to find out how to take care of her. It's hard to know how to take care of an aquatic turtle - it took me several years before I found this site. Don't let feeling guilty get in the way of your finding out what to do - just proceed as you are doing now.

She is quite undersized for her age. One thing you might do to give her more space right away is to house her in a rubbermaid tub or stock tank - at least for awhile. You can get a big one quite inexpensively. I got a 50 gallon rubbermaid tub from Lowes for about $17.

I would be very helpful to see a picture of her, and also her setup. Also, there is a set of questions at the beginning of the Urgent Care section - could you please answer them here?

Thank you for the encouragement. I didn't realize they made Rubbermade tubs that big, 50 gallons huh? Also, what is a stock tank? I've seen a couple people mention them so far.

Peace,
Cherry

[hiddenpassions]

I gently brushed her shell with a soft toothbrush and then took some pictures after she dried. These pics were taken in natural sunlight from a window. It looks like her retained scutes are pretty bad. I'm worried about her lower plastron too. Here they are.











Peace,
Cherry

[SpotsMama]

She looks a whole lot better than I was expecting. There are lots of retained scutes but she doesn't have that widespread fungusy white look that they sometimes get - maybe some on the plastron but not advanced. I don't see pyramiding or visible metabolic bone disease>

However, if her shell is soft or flexible, that's a definite cause for concern. If she has soft shell, you should get her to a good herp vet as soon as you can.

As for the retained scutes and her size, as you know her habitat needs upgrading. Follow the guidelines on this site for the tank, lighting, filter, heating and water quality. It's very important for the health of a turtle's shell and bones that they get plenty of calcium in the diet - cuttlebone is an excellent source - readily available and inexpensive. They also must be able to bask regularly under a good UVB light.

To help her shed those scutes, add foods containing vitamin e to her diet. Here's a list:

Tomato
Sweet potato
Turnip greens
Blueberries
Apple skin

That plus the upgrade in the habitat and a good balanced diet will have those scutes popping off pretty soon. Some of them look very close to shedding already.

When you see the vet, have him/her check for internal parasites. That's a common reason for little or no growth in turtles.

Also, when you see the vet, here's a caution. : If the vet offers to give a vitamin A shot, first make sure the vet is positive your turtle really needs vitamin A and then discuss other alternatives to shots with the vet like eye drops with vitamin A, cod liver oil or food supplements. Several turtles have recently had very bad reactions to vitamin A shots and I think it's best that if vitamin A is needed (and often it's not) the safer methods be used instead. I don't see the typical signs of vitamin A deficiency in your turtle - swollen eyes, poor skin quality.

[hiddenpassions]

Well that sounds great to me! I'm thinking i thought it was a lot worse than it is. I thought the scutes between the spinal and the marginals seemed abnormally sunken. I know i still have a lot to do for her, but i feel better. I'm not sure how hard her shell is supposed to be. I pressed around while i was cleaning her and it felt pretty firm, but i was afraid to press too hard that i'd be hurting her. It seems like i remember it having more give in the past, around her tail area, and in general. By the way, what is a stock tank? Thanks for all your help.

Peace,
Cherry

[SpotsMama]

The worst problem that's visible in the photos is the retained scutes - and they are piled up pretty deep. What happens with retained scutes is that water gets underneath them when they are loose but haven't fallen off, and then bacteria and fungus start to grow, which leads to shell rot. As you work to help her shed those piled up scutes, clean her periodically to help prevent the infections from taking hold. A very good wash for cleaning her shell is Hibiclense. It's a handwash for people that's found at stores like Walgreens. Dilute it to half strength, then use it to gently clean her shell with a soft toothbrush, then rinse thoroughly. Don't let it get on her face or eyes.

I would urge you to get a stool sample checked for internal parasites. This sort of check is an easy one for a vet and shouldn't cost much.