General Care Discussion :: Need Help New Turtle Owner With a few Questions

[g124v17y]

Hi everyone,

Background
About a month ago now my brother and I were helping a friend move some furniture when we noticed a small critter keeper kind of tank sitting by a garbage can, upon closer inspection we found that there were two baby RES turtles in it! We immediately took them out and brought them home from that awful environment (it smelled awful, had very little water and pebbles on the bottom, no food and it was only 40 degrees outside). Anyway, we soon did a lot of research and bought a 180 gallon tank, a filter and heater and everything. We got rocks to put on the bottom of the tank that are bigger than the turtle so they wont eat them or anything. I can put up pictures if necessary. We have only fake plants, (tried getting a live one but it died fast) and we took them to the vet and he said they should be healthy soon with UV light (small signs of MBD). Now their shells are hard and they seem to be happy. We feed them a blend of vegetables and fruits and dog food and other stuff in jello and they seem to love it. (Vet recommended easiest way to feed them) There have been a few problems and concerns that I have had though.

question 1
There is some orange looking algae beginning to grow on the rocks of the tank and the walls. Is this harmful? Should I get algae cleaner stuff? I tried getting a Pleco cause there are two goldfish living together with the turtles, but yea that didn't work out.

question 2
While they were both the same size when we got them, now, one has grown at a steady rate and is more than double the size of when we got them. This one has a big appetite and tries to eat the food before it even hits the water, while the other one hasn't grown much, eats only when no one is watching him because he is very skiddish and spends most of his time swimming as fast as he can into the wall cause he is scared of us humans. He does eat, but he isn't growing at even close to the rate the other one is, and he is about the same size as when we got him (granted a little bigger). So my question is, is this normal? Can I change something to make him happier/healthier?

question 3
While we were told to feed them in a separate tank so that we don't clog the filter as much, they don't like the other small tank and don't eat when they are in there, especially the small one. So, we have been feeding them in their big tank, but the only problem with that is the filter pad needs to be changed like once a week instead of once a month. Is there anything I can or should do about this?

So I think that is it, if I think of anything else I'll be sure to post more, and uh, sorry for writing so much but it is my first time posting here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Daniel3507]

try and not feed them dog food. the main diet should be a good turtle pellet and since they are under 4 inches feed however much could fit in their head once a day. keep offering veggies daily but cut back the fruits to once a month.
http://www.redearslider.com/plants.html
there are some lists of the foods to feed and some to avoid

algae its not really a bad thing, it just doesnt look that good. what most people do is just scrub it off when it starts to grow. if its a brown color it could be because the tank is cycling. do you have a test kit for the water?

you need to make sure that the bigger one isnt eating the food for the little one. you might need to seperate them for feeding time to make sure they both the proper amount

it sounds like the filter isnt strong enough for the tank. turtles are much dirtier than fish so you need a filter rated for a tank larger than you have. it should be able to cycle the tank AT LEAST 3 times an hour but the more the better. what kind of filter do you have? i feed my turtle in his tank and have never had a problem with the filter getting dirty so fast.

[g124v17y]

Haha I'm not feeding them straight dog food. My Vet and I both believe that live food is much more appropriate to animals then prepackaged pellets. I mean think of it this way, if you need vitamins and minerals, you eat a salad, the turtles are being force fed the same thing every day in these pellets. Instead what I do and what my vet recommended is exactly what they do in zoos but on a much smaller scale. I make a smoothie using leafy green vegetables, fruits, a little dog food (dogs are omnivores so it has both meat and vegetables in it), an egg, and some dried krill. I take this liquid mixture and add gelatin to it, pour that in an ice cube tray, and pop it in the fridge. After it hardens I pop them out of the ice cube tray and put them in the freezer for storage. I feed my two babies about half a cube a day. The food is left there all day and later at night I take the leftovers out. I see them both eating and going after the same piece and stuff and there are always left overs so I don't think it's a matter of not eating enough, although I will try putting the bigger one in a seperate tank while the little one eats to see if that gets him growing a little more.

Any other suggestions? All appreciated, thank you!

[Arisu]

Goldfish aren't usually recommended as roomies with turtles. 1) your turtle will eventually eat then and they're too fatty and 2) goldfish make A LOT OF WASTE (bumping up ammonia and other harmful chemicals in the water, not to mention the quicker foulage of your filter).

Orange algae sounds a bit weird. Can you get some pictures of that?

The started-same-size-but-one-is-twice-as-large-now situation is VERY common. If you want, you can do a quick search for past posts on this situation. Can't be exactly sure what the problem is. It could be genetics or intimidation, or a little of both. Have you noticed any sign of aggression yet? Exactly how big are your guys?

[SpotsMama]

Greetings and welcome to the forum. Sounds like you're off to a good start. Your turtles must love the nice big home you've made for them. Can you show some photos of the habitat and turtles?

1. Algae is generally a sign that nitrate levels are high. Have you checked the nitrate level? What about ammonia and nitrite? The solution is more frequent partial water changes. Excessive nitrate levels occur when the bio load is high. This would occur because the gold fish in addition to two turtles are creating too much waste and the uneaten food is staying in the tank.

2. A certain amount of variation in size due to genetics is normal. If the difference is very great, it can mean that the big one is getting all the food (which is possible even if there is excess food in the tank if the little turtle is feeling intimidated by the big one, and it does sound like he's nervous). Another reason for little or slow growth in a turtle is internal parasites. Has the vet checked stool samples for parasites?

3. Feeding the turtles in a separate container would solve several of your problems. First, the water would stay cleaner and the algae would be less of a problem. Second, you could feed them one at a time so that the little one could eat in peace and perhaps grow a little better. If you keep feeding them in the separate container they will get used to it with time. If you absolutely need to feed them in their big tank, remove the big one for awhile so that the little one can eat in peace, then take all the uneaten food out after 5 or 10 minutes.

On the diet, I have made it a rule never to contradict a veterinarian but I'm going to give you my two cents here anyway. I think good quality pellets are the best diet for a turtle, supplemented with lots of fresh veggies (especially lettuce) and a little fruit and occasional high protein treats like shrimp. Good pellets are formulated to provide the specific nuitrients needed by an aquatic turtle. People on the forum have turtles that have lived healthy lives for decades on good quality turtle pellets. In the wild, RES don't get to eat anything as fatty as dog food nor do they get starchy carbs like corn (a common dog food ingrediant) on a regular basis. Additionally (and some on here may disagree), the frozen cubes sound kind of messy to me and may be contributing to a water quality problem.

One of the benefits of pellets is that you can control quantity easily. The biggest mistake lots of turtle keepers make is over feeding their turtles and feeding them too much protein. This can be quite harmful over the long term. With pellets, you feed the amount that would fit in a turtle's hollow head (excluding the neck) every day until they are 4" long, then switch to a headful every other day, and you can be confident they aren't getting too much.

If you haven't already, why don't you read up on the nuitrition section here and give the matter some thought. It's up to you of course how and what to feed your turtles, but since the subject came up, I though I'd mention it.

One more unsolicited comment - if you don't already have it, you can keep pieces of cuttlebone in the tank to provide calcium for your turtles, which would be indicated especially since they've had a MBD problem.

[g124v17y]

Thanks again for your reply.

The cuttle bone trick sounds like a good idea I will definitely try that. I will test my water also and see if the nitrate nitrite and ammonia levels are too high. If they are what can I do to safely bring them down without harming my turtles?

Also, as far as diet, turtles are notoriously good pets because they are so hardy. They can and will eat almost anything and as long as they have vegetables and protein they will live a long and happy life.

I don't see either of the turtles intimidating the other one... in fact once in a while i come to look at them and they are holding hands, then the little one scurries off to hide like he always does when people are around.

Anyway, how do you do a partial water change? The way I am doing it is pretty difficult right now so I am wondering if there is an easier way.

I will definitely take the fish out now, I had no idea that goldfish were so dirty.

Thank you, any more input would be appreciated.

[Daniel3507]

water changes will help control nitrates and a cycled tank should have no ammonia so once it gets cycled you shouldnt have to worry about it. the easiest way to change water is with a python or some kind of siphon.

i would be worried about the amount of protein and fat in dog food. since it is made for dogs it probably has alot more than necessary for a turtle and too much fat and protein can be very bad for a turtle.

[g124v17y]

Ok last time with this dog food business, I put about 10-15 pebbles of dog food in a smoothie that lasts the two turtles a month. It's not that much, just making sure they get their protein. Also, fat is not a problem with turtles, unless they eat something like lard, they will be fine.

[mikee]

g12-17y -- It sounds like you are starting out on the right foot. I would suggest that you do not feed much high protein foods, like meat. If you stick to a good brand of pellets with a few veggies you will be fine. Next, your filter should pump at least 5 times the amount of water you have in the tank per hour. (gph) For that tank, I would suggest a Fluval FX5. It is a great filter pump and puts out a lot of water. Turtles put out way more poop than a fish. Most aquarium shops or pet shops don't have a clue about turtles and will sell you something based on fish. You have to think in terms of gph when it comes to turtles. Clean water, proper temps, proper lighting and food and you will do fine. Good Luck!! m.

[SpotsMama]

The Python that Daniel mentioned can be a turtle keeper's best friend (along with a good filter as per Mikee). Here's a link to the product.

http://www.pythonproducts.com/

I refill my tank with the python by attaching it to the kitchen sink faucet. When I'm draining the faucet I let it drain out the back door into the yard (fertilizes the fig tree!).

A well balanced right-sized tank will need a change of 25% to 50% every few weeks. It really depends on a lot of variables so the best way to learn how frequently you need to change water is by testing.

[g124v17y]

wow that python thing looks like it could really help. I just bought a hose from home depot and i need one person standing at the tank and another holding the other end of the hose to the faucet. We add water (probably around 10%) to the tank every 2 or 3 days just cause it evaporates.

Anyway, I have some pics that I would like everyone to look at.

[Daniel3507]

looks nice. you need to get a stand though asap. having a tank that isnt fully supported on the bottom puts alot of stress on it and can even cause it to crack. what kind of bulbs do you have? i love how green your turtles are. makes me miss when my guy was that small

[g124v17y]

Yea stands are expensive though.... I'll see what I can find. The main bulbs are reptile uva uvb lights, and then a basking light is just heat.

[Daniel3507]

if you do a search on the forum i think there are some pretty good plans and how to make your own stand. would be cheaper than having to buy one thats for sure.
you have a nice set up. big change from what they had before. just make sure that there is no glass or screen between the UVB