General Care Discussion :: Confused after visitιng the vet

[Bi1l]

So i have this problem: Everything was fine but suddenly i stopped seeing my turtle's poop in the aquarium. I thought that it was eating the poop fast enough before i could notice it (it was eating the poop since the day i got it). Then i read on this site that it is good for the turtles to eat plants. So i gave it lettuce. After a day or two i saw completely undigested lettuce floating beiing on the bottom and most of it caught at the intake of the filter. So i stopped the lettuce. Even though i stopped feeding lettuce small quantities of it which i couldn't remove from the tank where recycling through turtles digestive system for weeks(yes for weeks) because it was keep eating them. I am pretty sure that my turtle stopped pooping lettuce because i finally managed to remove it and not because it managed to digest it. So i was giving only reptomin for some weeks. Although 2 or 3 times when i caught my turtle pooping i saw a brown cloud coming out of its butt (i call this diarrhea the vet has different opinion and despite how hard i tried i wasnt able to understand what the hell was trying to say). After some weeks i tried to give it a different plant(one of the recomended , i don't remember the english name) and again i had the same result : my turtle didn't digest it. So i stopped again feeding it but instead returning to reptomin i decided to give dried shrimp only for a week. After a week still it didn't have solid poop and was still pooping undigested plant. (I was feeding it and i was watching it until it poops)
All these i described above can be considered normal? I say no, so i decided to visit a vet.
First of all he told me that res aren't supposed to eat plants and changes to their diet can cause digestive problems. Sorry but after so much reading i did someone telling me this is like trying to convince me that earth is flat.
I gave him sample of stool he saw it and told me that this is normal look when the turtle is eating plants. The problem was that the sample was a week after the turtle was eating only dried shrimp.
He tried to explain me that the brown cloud i saw wasn't diarrhea. call it whatever you like still i never read about something like it considered as normal. If what i described is correct this maybe because my turtle has salmonela and is affecting the turtle itself. This totaly confused me. I know about salmonela transimited from turtle to human but turtle itself geting sick from it?
He told me that it may be internal parasites. Ok i find this logical and is the first thing that crossed my mind too.
Also i didn't like the way it handled my turtle First time i saw my turtle so scared and aggressive trying to bite. He used this tool which looks like a scissors. This further confused me I couldn't get my thoughts into an order.
So now i have to give him one more sample hopefully more of it but the poop dissolves in the water vey easily so it is very hard to collect it. He will examine the sample i gave him and see if any drugs are needed. The question is can trust him? I don't have alternatives either. By my experience about doctors for humans though what x-files are saying is completely correct: TRUST NOONE. Do your research too. If someone has an idea about what is wrong with my turtle will be highly appreciated . Except what i discribed the turtle acts normaly. It has huge apetite basks and swims normaly. Bright eyes,clean nose, strong bite(my fingers know it), excelent climbing abilities.
Sorry for the long post

[TheComputerGremlin]

I don't know how much help I can provide, but I'll start the discussion.

Yes, aquatic turtles do need to eat veggies, esp. as they age. Often initially after your turtle begins eating veggies, their poo will change a bit. If it becomes liquidy, though, you are overfeeding veggies. IMO, a shell-sized piece of lettuce is sufficient for one day's veggies. Make sure the lettuce you are feeding is an approved lettuce, though. Never feed iceberg lettuce or spinach. If you have a question about a type of lettuce available in other countries, just post the name of it and someone should be able to tell you about it.

I would say that you may have done more harm than good by changing the diet so frequently over the short time. First, veggies aren't a substitute for pellets. You want to feed a head-sized amount of pellets every other day in addition to a shell-sized piece of lettuce or a few strips of carrot. Second, no dried shrimp for an entire week - treat only, once per month.

As for the vet, I can't say that I would take my turtle back after an experience like that. I know there are a shortage of herp vets everywhere, but is there someone else you can try?

[Bi1l]

I never stopped feeding pellets to feed veggies. I was feeding pellets in the morning and veggies some hours later. Also i didn't stop giving veggies at once when i saw watery poo but it was only getting worse as the days were passing.
I am pretty sure i didnt give excessive quantities. All the process took months and i gave shrimp only this last week. So i can't say that i was changing eating habbits often.

[steve]

What's in the tank? Could there be something else your turtle is eating? What kind of lettuce have you been giving your turtle? How much is small quantities? Is your turtle eating it's own poop?

[Bi1l]

It is a sixty litres (15 gallons) glass aquarium with above the tank basking area external eheim 2213 canister filter and heater, uvb/uva light and a an ordinary light above basking area so it gets around 32-33 Celcious. Nothing is missing from the tank or seems bitten , i dont have rocks or sand in the tank, real or plastic plants, no sulfa blocks or anything else. Romaine and red leaf, also i gave endives. A leaf around its shell size or a bit more i dont think it can be considered to much. And yes as i said was eating its own poop.

[TheComputerGremlin]

I just went through your old posts to see if I could tell how big your turtle is, and I found your previous post in Urgent Care that was about all of this as well from back in September. Is this a new incident, or a continuation of the previous one? Because it sounds like this has been going on for over 6 months now, which makes me think it's beyond just bad veggies or something.

When you took your turtle to the vet, did they do any X rays or test the stool for parasites or worms or anything of that sort? It sounds like your turtle is in the 3-5" range based on that other posting, so I will definitely say that your tank is too small. You want to have 10 gallons per inch of turtles, or 37.85 liters per 2.54 cm of turtle. So right now you would be needing to at least double if not triple your aquarium size. The ATBA is a good idea to extend a smaller tank for longer, but I'm worried that since turtles produce a lot of waste, it's possible that the smaller tank is concentrating whatever is making him sick.

There are a few possibilities with the veggies - bad or spoiled veggies, pesticides on the veggies that weren't properly washed, a different variety of lettuce compared to what we feed in the States, or maybe it's just that your turtle for some reason can't digest it.

[marisa]

My turtles don't always digest everything they eat, and I think that's normal. And, it takes much less lettuce for one of my painteds (who was the runt and is still smaller than the others) to produce bits of lettuce that float in the tank. If your turtle is otherwise healthy (sounds like he is from what you say), I don't really see a problem (unless I'm missing what the problem is)...I'd keep on experimenting with the amounts of plant matter you're giving him.

If you need to collect a stool sample, don't use a net, if that's what your using. Get a turkey baster or something similar to suck the poop out of the water with minimal disturbance. Can't comment on your vet, except to say that I disagree with some of what he said and have questions on some of the other things he told you (but, yes, a turtle can get sick from salmonella if not in good health).

[Bi1l]

It is the same situation since september . My turtle is around 3 inches (exactly 7,7 cm at the base of the shell) and i know that my tank is small but i am about to buy a new one after easter, most possible during the summer.
Also if it was a bit of undiggested plant i wouldn't be concerned either (in fact i wouldn't be able to see it because my turtle would have eaten it) But when the intake of the filter gets full of undigested plant (i can even see the structure of the leaf, not half-digested), the rest of the plant that the turtle reeats is recycling even weeks after i have stopped giving plants, i see cloudy poo even after weeks or months it had stopped eating plants i can say that something doesn't seem right.
I will have the results of stool sample on tuesday, i may hadn't give him enough though so i will bring him more.

[meltedspork]

Sounds like your vet doesn't know much about RES.

I have heard so many bad experiences involving vets and reptiles. It really scares me that so many vets know so little about our beloved pets. I have a friend who recently took her RES in to the vet for an absess on his neck. They decided it was an injury, perhaps self-inflicted, and trimmed his nails because they said captive RES should have their nails trimmed. And, here is the best part, they asked her if he has fresh water to drink! Excuse me? That would like like bringing in a fish to the vet and have them ask that same question. Oi vey! I really hope nothing ever happens to Toby because finding a good reptile vet seems impossible!

[marisa]

Just curious, but have you actually seen your RES swallowing the plants? From the description you gave, it sounds like your RES could just be ripping some of the pieces of lettuce into little pieces and the pieces collect in the filter intake...

[Bi1l]

it looks like that but i am 100% sure that it eats the plants. i like watching it while it eats.