General Care Discussion :: dead turtles.....need help!

[chefjeff]

Hello, I have a friend who owns a property in SW Michigan. The property has a spring-fed pond about 1.75 acres with varying depths of 5-7 feet, and some max depths of 14 foot. There are the typical plant and grasses growing in the pond and has a shallow area in a flooded wooded area. His property is the only wooded area around and is surrounded by apple, corn, and tomato fields. The water is pretty clear. We recently bought 10 red ear slider turtles and added them to the pond. The pond has also just been stocked with fish ( 400 3" bluegill, 75 largemouth bass, 100 perch, 50 rainbow trout, and 75lbs minnows.) The pond appeared to be barren with the exception of frogs, few other turtles, a muskrat and some small bluegill. Two weeks after adding the turtles we have found 6 of them dead along with 3 dead large snapping turtles. The fish all seem to be doing great. We also see some baby red ear sliders. The turtle die-off has us stumped. Any ideas of what it could be? Or any starting points on figuring this out would really help. Thanks, Jeff

[imderanged]

I'm sorry to hear about your turtles. I tried to look up whether or not RES are native to your area and found conflicting info. Do you have native RES in your area? Even if you do, it seems like you are on the very edge of their range. Maybe it got too cold for the babies at night? They have a harder time regulating their body temps than the bigger turtles. Also, since it happened quickly, maybe the turtles were already sick when you got them. How big where the babies, and where did they come from?

[SpotsMama]

Were the turtles damaged in any way? I'm thinking of injuries by herons or other turtles. If not, I'd say the suggestions by imderanged are on target - either temperature shock or the turtles were already ill when you got them. Since fish and frogs are typically much more sensitive to chemicals and toxins than turtles, it would be surprising if they were the problem, though the proximity to agricultural areas is suspicious.

When you said you say some baby sliders, do you mean you found live ones or dead ones?

[chefjeff]

Thanks for the response from both of you. The baby turtles we spotted were alive. The turtles we added were 6-9 in diameter. The water is cold, not sure what temp. is. I just find it baffling that the large snapping turtls were also dead. Those we did not add, and yet they were dead the same week or so. The biggest one being 10 pounds+ Not sure, but the more I read I think we may have added them too early in the spring with cold temps.

[SpotsMama]

That's very puzzling about the snappers - unless the RES were ill with an infection that the snappers picked up. One would think, though, that the very most vulnerable turtles to either illness or cold would be the little babies.

[Deon]

This is unlikely but could they have fought each other? But if you've seen the bodies then were there signs of fighting?

[chefjeff]

Deon, no signs of fighting. The turtles we found showed signs of bloating in a few, and we found a couple more in the wooded area that were dead. ???

[SpotsMama]

Here's a thought. Turtles are carnivores and scavengars. Perhaps someone poisoned some rats or birds and the turtles came across the carcasses and got into trouble. If the fish and tiny turtles weren't eating the same thing, perhaps that's how they escaped.

It's tough to hear, but I've also heard that some people don't like aquatic turtles because they think the turtles eat fish that they'd like to catch. If you've got fishermen or women using the pond, is it possible someone has deliberately harmed the turtles to eliminate the competition?

[papoopeepoo]

Here's a thought. Turtles are carnivores and scavengars. Perhaps someone poisoned some rats or birds and the turtles came across the carcasses and got into trouble. If the fish and tiny turtles weren't eating the same thing, perhaps that's how they escaped.

It's tough to hear, but I've also heard that some people don't like aquatic turtles because they think the turtles eat fish that they'd like to catch. If you've got fishermen or women using the pond, is it possible someone has deliberately harmed the turtles to eliminate the competition?

I feel like deliberate harm would end in missing bodies, not turtles lying on the shore. With the low ratio of turtle to fish, in this circumstance, I also feel that most people would not notice the impact the turtles make on fish population. To me it sounds more like an environmental problem (probably temperature) that's causing the deaths. Even in PA during this season the outdoor temps are a bit cool for reptiles, I'm thinking that in Michigan the temps would be even more drastically low.

[SpotsMama]

Here's hoping you're right Papoo. I wonder though why big snappers that had presumably grown up in the area also died. Maybe it was old age...

[marisa]

Snappers are incredibly adaptable and can survive in a pretty wide range of environments. They're also very cold tolerant. If the pond is where they've been living, I doubt the temps would do them in.

If the RES were not hatchlings and were healthy, I doubt you'd see the kind of die-off you described. (Why were they put into this established ecosystem???)

I'm wondering, since the pond is surrounded by a number of crops and if they've already been planted and sprayed, if somehow a poison got into the water. You could have the water analyzed...I'm also wondering if a particularly nasty parasite could be residing in the pond. You're absolutely sure there were no marks on any except for the bloating?

[SpotsMama]

The odd thing is the fish and tiny turtles were apparently unaffected. One would think that if poison were in the water, it would harm the most vulnerable ones - the fish and small turtles - first. I was thinking maybe the big turtles were eating something that the fish and small turtles weren't eating - like poisoned rats or something. Whatever it was acted fast - if 9 large turtles were found dead two weeks after the large sliders were introduced.