General Care Discussion :: Disabled Hatchling Care

[BabyNorbert]

Hi!

I would truly appreciate advice regarding hatchling care and habitat setup. On Dec. 14 I found a RES hatchling on the sidewalk, about 1" in size. There is a pond nearby, but when looking for the best place to release it, I realized he (obviously biological sex is an assumption) had what appeared to be a developmental problem - very short hind limbs that are nonfunctional (though they move when he is crawling or swimming, he cannot use them to support himself or move about) and no tail. I couldn't put him back as I was confident he'd perish. So, I brought him home with me. I kept him in a temporary enclosure while researching aquatic turtles and contacted a turtle rescue. They didn't seem very interested, and I cannot blame them based on the information about the massive quantities of RES and people constantly relinquishing their RES to rescue, etc. that I've learned while reading. They told me they'd put me in touch with someone to either take him or give me help with setup, but they did not contact me again, so I forged ahead.

We set Norbert (we had to name him!) up in a very shallow 10 gallon aquarium and over several days made modifications based on what we felt was best for his condition and mobility. He flips himself over on his back occasionally, by climbing on things (we've since mostly solved this problem with flatter rocks) and cannot right himself, and I worry about him drowning, so his water is just wading height. We took him to a reptile vet on the 26th, because he was not eating (we are feeding in a separate container to monitor his intake) and we were concerned for his health and just wanted to know if he would be OK. She checked him over, said he was very cute (he is!), had a "vent" and that was a good sign, and confirmed my thoughts that he wasn't likely to survive in the wild, but that he could possibly live a long and happy life as our pet. She said our husbandry looked good, and suggested we try bloodworms to get him to start eating, and with some reptile stimulant, we finally got him eating on Dec. 30 and 31 (he's only had a few bloodworms, and I believe he ate one Reptomin stick and one gammarus treat). On Jan 1. he didn't eat, and yesterday we traveled 3 hours in the car (his place of origin is not my home, I was just visiting), and on the 2nd and 3rd he ate nothing. It's cold outside, so I turned the heat on in the house, and I imagine he's stressed with being thrust into this new environment and then the long car travel, but I'm very concerned for his health. The vet showed us how to coax him into opening his mouth so we could gently place some food inside then put him back into the water to swallow, but he won't cooperate - his mouth is not opening for anything!

I noticed today that the rear portion of his shell is a little flexible, near where his tail would be if he had one. Is this MBD? I am hoping not, but he's not eating and I don't know how long it takes to develop calcium deficiency. Should I get him supplemental calcium?

I have some concerns about temperature, one being that I don't know how to heat such a shallow amount of water - during the day I've been leaving the UVB lamp over the side of the tank with more water, and the heat lamp over the basking area and part of the water. In the evening, I put an infrared heat lamp in the middle of the tank, covering both the basking side and part of the water (he likes to sleep in the water) so that the water is a little warmer. He sleeps frequently and for extended periods, and I worry this means his habitat is too cold.

So, in summation, during the day and at night he lives in his very shallow tank, with gravel substrate, two flat rocks, one basking deck, and several plastic leaves for hiding. In the evening I take him out and put him in a separate container for eating, with enough water to cover his shell but so that he can still lift his head to breathe. I change the water in his tank every few days and rinse all the rocks and leaves in hot water, then treat the tank with a drop of Fluker's Dechlorinator and EcoClean. I have a Fluker's Clamp Lamp and Fluker's Mini Sun Dome, with a ZooMed 60W Daylight Blue bulb/All Living Things 75W Infrared bulb and a ExoTerra 13W ReptiGlo 5.0 UVB bulb (should this be a 10.0 instead?). I'm planning to change the ZooMed 60W to an All Living Things 100W because I don't think the tank is warm enough. The water thermometer reads 71-75 degrees at night (it's one of those cheap strips - is there a better/more accurate alternative?) and 75-78 during the day, and the air about 90 during the day, 80 at night. I'm not convinced the air thermometer is all that great either and will replace it if someone has a suggestion.

Foods I've been offering are:
ZooMed Natural Aquatic Turtle Food, Hatchling Formula - he has never tasted this
TetraMin Tropical Fish Flakes - he has never tasted this
ReptoMin Baby - I believe he's eaten 1-1.5 of these
ReptoTreat gammarus - I believe he's eaten 1
Bloodworms - I believe he's eaten 4-5 of these
Zilla Jump Start Caloric Supplement & Appetite Stimulant - I just mix some of this with the water in his feeding enclosure and hope he's getting some nutrients when he drinks the water

I apologize for the massive amount of info in this post. Baby Norbert is very cute and has a lot of personality, but he just seems so fragile and I'm constantly stressing that my setup isn't good enough/he's not eating/he'll flip himself and drown/he's too hot/he's too cold, etc. I've never had a turtle and I really want to do what's right for him. We quickly grew attached to him and desperately want him to live.

Thanks for any advice/reassurance you can offer.

[steve]

Hi, welcome to the site.

Norbort has no tail but has a functioning cloaca?

Even though a shallow 10 gallon is not the best setup, I go agree that he might have drowning issues. Have you tested his swimming abilities?

If he is still adjusting to his new environment, he might be reluctant to eat when moved into a separate feeding container. Try feeding him in the 10 gallon. Don't be fooled by pellets disappearing, they usually break apart and dissolve in the water.

Bloodworms and live prey like feeder fish usually work well.

A hatchling's shell is usually slightly pliable, I'd continue to offer the ReptoMin Baby and other treats. Try to keep things simple for him and yourself at this point.

When my hatchling was small and sick I used a small under tank heater. Since they are not made for this purpose, you need to be extra careful with the temperatures. Alternatively, people say that infrared bulbs do not interrupt their sleep (I haven't tried it). There are also ceramic heaters that fit into a light socket, but they are expensive and unreliable.

The 5.0 UVB is fine and you can use a regular incandescent instead of the Daylight Blue bulb.

I would bump all the temps up for now - 80F for the water, 90F for the basking area. Infrared temp guns are pretty accurate, though the old style tube ones are reliable too (make sure it's one he can't break). Your temps are good, but it's usually raised a bit higher when there is a possible illness.

I'd skip the de-chlorinator and EcoClean - are you using a filter?

[BabyNorbert]

Hi Steve - thanks so much for your reply.

Norbs has no tail and appears to have a functioning cloaca caudally, partly hidden by his shell. I will try to post some photos of him soon. It was one of the things the reptile vet was initially concerned about, and said even though he appears to have a vent he may still have internal/intestinal deformities related to the visible congenital deformities. She said if we started to see droppings in the water that was a good sign, and I think we saw a tiny poo in his feeding container the last time he ate.

I have not tested his swimming abilities yet. I feel badly about not giving him more water in his tank, but I am definitely concerned about the drowning dilemma. I will test his swimming on a day when I can supervise him for an extended period, and we'll see if we can get him in some more water. The vet believed the shallow setup was best for him at this time. After we know he is a strong swimmer and when he begins to grow, I know his tank will need to be upgraded considerably and we are prepared for that.

He was (and appears to be again) reluctant to eat in the separate container initially, but I tried feeding him in the 10 gal and he wasn't eating anything. The pellets were just dissolving. I'm not sure there's enough water for him to dunk his head to swallow in the 10 gal. In the separate feeder, I only put him in for 2-3 hours at a time and I definitely noticed tiny bites taken out of the ReptoMin Baby sticks, as well as missing bloodworms and a missing shrimp. I check on him every so often in the feeding container and witnessed him swallow at least three bloodworms.

Is there a specific under tank heater you recommend? Maybe something like this? http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm ... id=PT-2022. I'm a bit nervous about all the lights and heating, I don't want him to get too hot and I don't want a house fire! Should I get a smaller under tank heater and just place it under the half that is not exposed to the basking bulb? We are using an infrared bulb for nighttime heating (I wanted to try the ceramic but it was around $30, which seemed a lot at the time - however, we've already spent much more than I anticipated, so I probably should have picked one up to ensure he could sleep undisturbed) and I think he's sleeping through the night, except last night - I woke up to check on him several times and he was awake for a while around 1-2 in the morning.

Today I swapped the 60W heating bulb (which I was running at full power) for the 100W, turned down a little on the dimmer switch, and supervised him a bit this morning to get the basking area to about 90, and I think it's also helping to warm the water slightly. I need to figure out how to get the water to 80. Also, at this time is it best to maintain these temps, rather than letting them fall slightly at night?

Also, do you have any advice regarding a hideout hut or space for him? He tries to hide among the leaves but seem unsatisfied, and sometimes he climbs on them and ends up flipping himself. So frustrating!

Not currently using a filter or water heater, because they were all rated for much higher quantities of water. We don't have enough water in the tank to run through the filter. I will research this further. Should I just be using plain tap water instead of treating it with the dechlorinator/ecoclean?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!

[steve]

Kudos to you for all you are doing. Don't fee bad about not letting him swim, his safety if far more important right now.

I would try some rosey red feeder fish. Hold it by the tail and let it wiggle in front of his face. You might need to raise the water levels to the top of his shell when it's time to feed him.

I don't have a specific undertank heater to recommend, but I used a similar one you linked -- http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDeta ... SearchID=5

Since it is not intended to be used with aquariums, you need to be extra careful. At the time I used a rubbermaid container and stuck the plate under a thin sheet of metal.

Alternatively, would you be able to keep him in a warm room as opposed to using heating bulbs? I don't see any harm in the temps drop slightly but you do want to keep it consistent however. I think some people have used electric blankets for a similar purpose.

I can't think of anything specific to use as a hideout... he might want something snug and there really isn't much out there. You might need to make something for him.

As for filter, I used to use a similar filter to a Tetra Whisper: http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-Whisper-Fil ... B0002DHYF4

The motor is on the bottom and you just need enough water to cover it. I think they've changed the design a bit, so I'm not sure if you can use it for Nobert.

Any filter that has carbon in it will de-chlorinate and remove chloramines in the water. Perhaps just set aside some water for 12-24 hours, and the chlorine will evaporate.

[BabyNorbert]

Hi Steve,

He ate again last night! I think the stress of the travel may have gotten to him. Also, without considering it would alter his eating habits, I purchased him a clear reptile-specific little carrier to eat in, as opposed to when I first found him and his temporary enclosure was an opaque plastic Chinese food container. That seemed a bit morbid so I wanted to get him in something different, but I'm wondering if he feels safer in the opaque container. Last night I put him back in the Chinese food container with appetite stimulant and he ate 3 bloodworms and nibbled at the ReptoMin and Shrimp. I'm planning to cut back on the bloodworms and see if I can get him to start eating the ReptoMin regularly, and perhaps I'll continue to feed in the opaque container til he's eating well, then figure how to cover the clear container a little and transfer him to that.

Will try to figure out the best location, I can see if a room change will raise the temp a little. It's unusually cold here right now, and I have the heat turned up to 74 to ensure his water temp is not less than that, plus the heating bulb warms it some. He's currently located in a bathroom, which is heated but may be colder than a carpeted bedroom.

I'm planning to figure out how to post photos today so you can get a look at his hind limb/tail situation. I really hope he's going to be OK.

Thanks again for your help!

[steve]

An opaque or translucent container would be better. I've used low profile rubbermaid containers when my RES were hatchlings that offered a bit more room.