General Care Discussion :: "Rescuing" Memphis and Nash

[MrCHUPON]

Hi folks,

As I alluded to in my first post in the Introductions board, I'm trying to bring my girlfriend's RES habitat standards up to snuff. (I'm trying to advise my friend on the same thing but that'll be in another post.)

I've known Memphis (the big one) and Nash (the little one) for just over ten months. They are somewhere older than three, both fitting in the palm of my hand (3-inch or so carapace, minus change for Nash). Unfortunately the peddler who gave the boys to her likely had no idea how to truly take care of them and provided her with little to no useful advice. I, myself, was uneducated on the subject until last week I randomly Wikipedia'ed red-eared sliders and discovered--much to my horror--that of the nine crucial points under "ideal conditions in captivity", only one was being met (with three of them just being facts as opposed to being "conditions", but still).

We're in the process of putting together a plan to upgrade their lives from what are pretty much miserable conditions now to gold standard, as I'm paranoid of changing their environment too instantaneously. I started off by telling her to fill the (woefully undersized) tank with much more water (it's now 4.5 inches deep) and bringing back their basking lamp, and buying them an inexpensive Zoo-Med dock to re-introduce the concept of basking to their lives. The next step is integrating a UVB bulb, filter, and water heater--but here is where the issue of tank size and the layout of her apartment and furniture become slightly troublesome. So here I am asking for help!

TANK AND TABLE

A poor approximate of the tiny tank size from memory = 20"L 10"W 12"H. The sofa table on top of which the boys live is this Henmes sofa table from Ikea: http://bit.ly/tYHEyr

Her table is more than long enough, but not wide enough, to support the ideal size tank (80 - 120g). Nor do I think, structurally, it would be able to support such a size tank half-filled with water as we're talking a minimum of nearly 400 lbs. at that point (going by the approximation of 10 lbs. per gallon)... and it's an Ikea product, for crying out loud ^_^

Neither of us are strapped for cash, by any means, but we are also very conservative budgeters so we'd both be hesitant to go "all out" right away--but I don't want them stuck in that little tank any longer than they have to be. What would be a "safe" interim size for a tank (bear in mind we might not have to buy one if our friends / family have some available) while we figure out what additional furniture to buy and how to lay her apartment out to accommodate the ideal, full-grown tank size? Going by the 10g-per-inch rule (10g x 3" for Memphis = 30g) and adding 50% for the second inhabitant (little Nash), I'm guessing between a 40g and 50g tank. Does that sound okay for the interim? I'm still not sure if her sofa table could structurally support 200 lbs of water and if it'd still be too wide but it'd at least be easier to manage for the interim. Thoughts?

How much we can do here, and how quickly, is contingent on how long it takes for us to upgrade the boys' tank size.

BASKING, LIGHTING, HEATING

She currently has a plain basking bulb (I don't know the product type) in a regular desk lamp shining on them. (Re-introducing the bulb while affording them a basking platform has gotten them very happy, although they've always had a very friendly, excitable demeanor.) But it's only maybe 6" or 7" from the basking platform. As I don't know the wattage, I'm paranoid about frying them, but so far they seem to not mind the temperature. (A tank thermometer is on my shopping list.)

My thinking:

Invest in a setup including:

a double lamp fixture (Zoo Med mini combo deep dome - http://amzn.to/KZxZy5)
an adjustable lamp stand (Zoo Med Full Size adjustable - http://amzn.to/JRRcFn)
her current basking bulb (unknown)
a UVB compact bulb
EITHER Exo Terra ReptiGlo 5.0; notice the corkscrew design - http://amzn.to/JidtYu ...
OR Zoo Med Repti-Sun 5.0; notice the straight design - http://amzn.to/K3Y9QG)

Does anyone have any experience with the fixture or either of the bulbs? Are there any disadvantages to either of the brands (I've seen the Repti-sun come recommended by anapsid.org but no word on the ReptiGlo, but the former would jut out of the dome by about an inch)? Should I replace her current basking bulb with a non-light emitting ceramic heat bulb so they can stay warm at night, or would neither of the UVB bulbs provide enough brightness on their own? What else am I missing from a lighting and basking perspective?

Finally, I imagine the basking bulb is not enough to provide the right temperature for the boys' water. But I can't find the section that discusses heaters, if it exists. What's a good unobstructive, SAFE water heater that will allow the boys to swim freely without fear of them tampering with said heater or sacrificing too much real estate?

FILTRATION

We've changed the water twice in the last week and she's changing it a third time tonight but I can't stand to think of them living without a filter another millisecond. I want them to have as much real estate in which to swim as possible, so I'm nixing an internal filter, and I'm thinking about a hanging filter just to start because a canister filter, while the ultimate goal, might require re-arrangement of her furniture if it can't fit into one of the shelves of her sofa table. This site recommends the AquaClear 110; will this be sufficient without being "too" powerful for the boys? Is too much power even a concern at their size, or if we get the filter before the new tank (bearing in mind that the current tank is very small and that this is rated for 110g)?

I realize this was a lot to take in and thanks to anyone who was able to slog through this! I want to provide the best means for the boys as quickly as is possible within the means of my girlfriend's life (i.e. causing as little sudden disruption to her routines as possible, though she IS on Jury Duty now and not working her usual 12 hour days) or my life (I travel for work 2 weeks a month) so I guess I just blurted everything I could think of out there

Thanks!

[steve]

TANK AND TABLE
I agree you should not use an Ikea table for a stand. You shouldn't have a hard time finding tanks 100 gallons and smaller on Craigslist. I would either get a tank with a stand or make one yourself. Pet stores occasionally have sales of tanks up to 55 gallons ($1 per 1 gallon). Keep in mind that you will need to eventually upgrade again, adding to your total costs. They are currently in a 10 gallon, so almost anything would be better. Stock tanks, storage containers, kiddy pools are all temporary options.

BASKING, LIGHTING, HEATING
Pick up some thermometers to measure basking and water temperatures. You can use those sticky LCD ones for the water. A few people use the double lamp fixture and adjustable lamp stand. Nearly all clamp lamps with a ceramic socket will be fine to use and much cheaper. The stand is fine too, though some use shelving brackets to hang the lamps.

Either UVB bulbs you mentioned is fine. Make they are not too close to the turtles during the initial burn-in period. Stop using it if there are any symptoms of eye irritation like swollen eyelids. Repti-Suns are stronger so I would be a little more careful with them.

I would skip the ceramic heater. They are expensive and fragile. Use an incandescent or halogen for basking. They produce warm, bright light. A basking bulb is not a substitute for a water heater. The preferred brand on this forum is Ebo Jager.

FILTRATION
The AquaClear 110 is too big for a 10 gallon. Any discussion on particular equipment except lighting is almost pointless because they depend on the size of your tank. If you can manage it, concentrate on getting the new tank first.

Do you know if you have makes or females? Are there any aquarium restrictions in her lease?

[MrCHUPON]

Steve, thanks so much for the speedy response.

- Aquarium restrictions: Mel owns her apartment but according to the co-op bylaws residents can't have any pets, including reptiles... so yeah, we'd have to be stealthy about it and big tanks would pose a problem. But like you said, anything's gotta be better than what they're in now so I'd settle for whatever's bigger right now just to get them out of there and we'll plan for a better roadmap throughout the next few years.

- Gender: She was told boys, but again, given that the seller obviously didn't know / care enough to give her a proper care sheet or knowledge I'm skeptical now. Also they're still quite small and I read here that we can't reliably tell their gender until they grow another inch or so. Right now their claws aren't very long so I'm suspecting they're female, which means we'll have to then create a nesting area too, but the next time I see them I'll inspect their tails and try to see if I can tell from that right now. Either that or I guess we'll have to see if their claws grow over the next few years or not.

- Filtration: Is it sufficient to do twice weekly 50% partials and monthly fulls in the interim until we can rectify the habitat issue? I hope we can get them something before the end of the month, though that might be optimistic. (I'm gonna go tank window-shopping this weekend with her just to get a visual.)

[steve]

The partial water changes probably aren't enough, but do your best. Sounds like you need to rearrange some parts of the apartment to accommodate a larger tank.

[MrCHUPON]

Well, I just put in an order for the ReptiGlo to start since they're a little weaker. I also went for a clamp lamp as you suggested. Amazon should have it at my place by Saturday. Hopefully the boys (...or girls?) enjoy the UV rays!

[steve]

Hope so too! Amazon might not be the cheapest place to order supplies, though having Prime is pretty nice.

[eaw]

If you want a cheaper option (and lighter weight option, as well), you can always spring for those preformed ponds. Very light in comparison with a tank of similar size, and considerably cheaper, as well. I bought my approximately 50 gallon pond for $25 off of craigslist.

You can check out http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/smpond.html. That is where I loosely based my idea off of, for a fraction of the cost of setting up a full aquarium.

[MrCHUPON]

eaw:

That pond looks *amazing*. Unfortunately she doesn't have a good place in her apartment for that kind of setup. But we'll see what the future holds

A few weeks in, and the Repti-Glo seems to be a hit. I'm not sure if better UV lighting would cause this but they seem more excitable and playful. Their claws are starting to grow a bit, leading me to believe that they're indeed boys. (We were watching a youTube video where a turtle keeper was saying that a completely flat plastron--which they both have--was also indicative of a male, but is that true?)

As we wait to hit a $1/g sale (Petco clerk said to call back next week) or find a friend to help us drive a new tank to her house, we've been changing the water almost daily. One problem is that I caught Memphis eating his own poop once which I freaked out about so I'm looking into getting a net to clean up after them.

[CactusJohn5]

Well if eating there poop is an issue then my 2 girls are gonners! lol they keep there own tank nice and clean, and i do not feed in the tank!

As for the "new tank" i would go with a 150g rubbermaid stock tank, it is going to take up the same amount of space as a bureau and tank.

http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/search?asu ... stock+tank