General Care Discussion :: Some questions/concerns from a new mommy...

[tsinivari]

Hi, I'm sorry if any of these questions have been addressed...I've searched the forums, found some answers, but still wanted to make a post given the situation I found myself in yesterday!

A little background...like so many people I'm sure, I bought my two RES babies at a beach shop in SC...having NO idea what went into their care. This was in August. When they stopped eating, I started researching and have since gotten them the habitat they need and my little guys are doing well and growing. Their names are Connor and Murphy.

I called to my vet (where I take my two cats) to see if they treat turtles, not so much because I needed a vet right then, but I wanted to know where a vet I could use was in case of an emergency. They didn't treat turtles, but one of the women that works there (not the doctor) told me she also had two turtles. This was about 2 weeks ago. She said she was keeping them in two inches of water...no heater, no basking light, no turtle dock. She told me they don't eat and don't move.

Based on the knowledge I had gained for Con and Murph I advised her about the habitat she needed to arrange and told her if she felt she really couldn't do it, to call me and I'd take them from her and either keep them or find a place for them.

On Wednesday, she called me to ask if I would still take them and even though the idea of 4 turtles was a little daunting, I said I would.

When I picked the little guys up--that she had had since July, in that improper habitat--the first thing I was struck by was how tiny they were. My guys are already bigger than they are. Their appearance is good (coloring, etc) and they did just do a lot of sitting, but I knew this was because of being cold. Before I left with them, she said that she was told if the edge of the shell at the tail is soft, that means they aren't getting enough nutrition. The edges there are soft, but no where else...and she was also told how to determine sex in an inch long hatchling...so I find her information suspect.

So that's my first question: if the edge is soft at the tell, does this mean they have soft shell syndrome? Because I've also found on RES sites that say the edges of a baby RES' shell can be leathery because they are growing so much. I've called around to a few local vets, and none will even talk to me without me bringing them in, and just to get in the door they want $50+ per turtle, which I can't do right now. I'm trying to figure out if I can care for these little guys simply by giving them a good habitat and getting them eating or if I need to give them to ARC (Animal Rehabilitation Center) that's here in Charlotte. I want to keep them.

They are now in the tank with Connor and Murphy and after camping out near their heater for about an hour, they became active and swimming around and fairly happy. This morning they still wouldn't eat, but I know it can also take a few days for the appetite to fully come back after they get warmed up. So, that part doesn't majorly concern me now.

The thing with the soft shell at the tail is that my guys are also a little soft (I checked after she said that). Not as bad, but there is a tiny bit of give, just at the tail. I've been feeding the, have the proper habitat, so I'm hoping this is normal. Connor is the largest of the four at 1.5". So, they are all still babies.

I also bought a cuttlebone to put in the tank with them yesterday...which I think they are still trying to figure out what it is.

I have been feeding Connor and Murphy turtle pellets every day...and I'm also going to get some veggies to start feeding them at the store tonight. I bought a new pellet that's high in calcium and has a D3 supplment last night as well. Any opinions on this?

I'm going to try removing Connor and Murphy from the habitat to try and feed the little guys (Merry and Pippin) tonight because my two babies are very enthusiastic eaters and I want to make sure the new additions have a chance to get at the food too and aren't intimidated. There has been no agression, just more indifference. The only issue I've had between Con and Murphy was one altercation over a food pellet, but they otherwise get along grandly.

I guess I just need advice...i'm not sure how I can improve the habitat further, and I'm wondering if it IS soft shell, how do you remedy it other than diet? They have no deformity of shell or discoloration. Connor and Murphy are shedding...which is natural--though at first I was concerned because it wasn't shedding yet and they had the metallic sheen when under water...but I since read that's natural during shedding and also that they shed places other than their scutes.

Also, I've read it's supposed to be 10 gallons per inch...I have the four little guys in a 10 gallon tank right now--is that vastly too small, about right?

Thanks in advance for any answers...and sorry for such a long post!

Winter

[jenaero]

I kept 5 hatchlings in a 3/4 full 10gal for rehab and it seemed like enough room at the time but it was only for a few weeks. And I wasn't about to invest in a larger tank for turtles that I wasn't going to keep. You'll want to upgrade as soon as you can.

I suggest that you keep the new ones separate from your other 2 for a while to make sure they're healthy. After being kept in such horrid conditions, they very well could be ill.

They sound like they're getting along well enough. There is a good chance that providing the right environment/temps could be enough. They probably have a soft shell still because of the lack of lighting and because they are still so young.

The pellets I use had calcium and d3 added as well.

Please read thru the basic care section to get an idea of what you'll need to buy. Most important right now is a larger tank, a uvb light and filter if you dont already have all that.

[tsinivari]

I've been through all the information on the website multiple times...and I've got a filter, basking light that is supposed to be "broad spectrum" but I've finally found a bulb that -specifically- says UVB...so that's being remedied...well, a few hours from now.

As for keeping the new babies seperate, there's just no way I can feasibly do that right now. I can't afford another heater (I have another tank I could keep them in, but no way to heat it) just to rehab the babies. And everyone is getting along fine...and at this point they've been sharing a habitat for nearly 24 hours anyway.

As for getting a larger tank...I just got the ten gallon one, and it's not going to be something I can do immediately. They all seem to have enough room and obviously I'm not saying I -won't- get a larger tank, I'm realistic in knowing that they will grow, but for now...I'm dealing with everything else, and a much larger tank will have to wait. For reference though, what size would you recommend?

Also, what kind of vegetation have you found works the best for feeding them...I'm getting different opinions on different veggies at different places *laughs*

[jenaero]

Getting along isn't really the main concern with introducing new turtles. It's more of a concern that the new ones may have illnesses/parasites that could be passed on to your other turts.

At that size, even I'd agree that a 10gal filled 3/4 does seem like a lot of room but of course it's not ideal. Size really depends on how long you're going to wait and how big they get by then. I wouldn't go any lower than 100gal for the 4 of them. You'll probably get a good lot of time with that one if you're careful not to overfeed.

What are the water and basking temps?

They may not take to veggies this early but you could try. Mine didn't until they were bigger but my hatchling rehabs took to it immediately. What I use most are romaine and red leaf lettuce and dandelion greens. I used to feed anacharis (aquatic plant) as well but the stores here don't carry it anymore.

[tsinivari]

Re: Size of tank. I do understand that the 10 gallon tank isn't a permanent size tank...there is no way a 100 gallon tank is feasibly in my near future though...and by near future, I mean months at least. Honestly, I'd have to see a 100 gallon tank to even know if it was possible, period, in my home. I have very limited space. I also understand this means that in the long term, I'm probably not going to be able to house two turtles...which means I also realize the -smart- thing to have done would be to have just taken the two rescues to ARC and not made an attempt...but I just didn't have it in me.

That said, if I can't give 4 an appropriate habitat, I'd rather give at least 2 two ARC when the time came, knowing they'd find them proper homes. I have two cats, so while I could have the stock tanks those would generally sit on the floor and...well...turtle fishing...no thanks right?

Also, I'm crossing every finger I have that I have four males (which I KNOW odds are against me) because frankly, the idea of eggs scares me! *laughs* Thankfully, I've a few inches of turtle growth before I have to cross that particular bridge, so it's on the backburner of panic

I think I may have been overfeeding the two I got myself ...not because they are pyramidding, just because of the more I read, so I'm going to cut their diet down a bit

Honestly had I know what it was entailed when buying them, I wouldn't have. Now that I have though, I love the little guys and I'm going to do everything I possibly can to give them a proper habitat and the only unknown factor here is keeping up with tank size. And since I do love them, if that means letting go for a few (in a proper way) then I am prepared to do it when the time comes.

Water temp is 78 (I have a heater that's preset for my little guys...because the idea of having to figure out how to set a non regulated one broke my brain) but I do have a thermometer on the tank...and if I see it dip or rise, I make adjustments to the environment of my house. As for basking temperature, I don't have a thermometer for the air of the basking area...but it was warm enough to draw them out and get them fully dry (though I have to exchange the bulb I bought to replace a dead one last night, it's not nearly warm enough and their behavior towards it reflected on that).

I got them to eat a bit of lettuce ...or rather... I put it in there and they either fed it to my cats or they ate it as it was gone. I also got rid of the regular aquarium rocks as I caught Connor trying to munch. I replaced them with river rocks I bought, all of which are much bigger than Con's mouth.

One last note on tank size, I know you suggest a min 100 gallon tank for the four...and I've said there's no way right now, how long in the 10 gallon would just be TOO long? I realize in about another 1 or so of growth, I'm looking at having to upgrade to -something- larger even if it's not 100 gallons and trying to figure out what I'm going to do with all these tanks I'm not using in the mean time!

[flutterby]

If you're worried about money, the best suggestion is to get a rubbermaid container, they will give you alot more water space and they're pretty inexpensive. In the long run, if you want to save money a stock tank might be a good option. They're less expensive than regular glass aquariums but they're not as pretty either. I would rather have a stock tank than a glass aquarium. My turtles were really shy and it gave them "privacy".

If you lived closer to me, I would be more than happy to take them off your hands, but you're on the other side of the country.

[tsinivari]

As I stated above, the problem with a stock tank is -where- to put it with two cats roaming around (and no real way to shut everyone off from one another). I know where I can take them (well not ALL of them, but a couple of them) if this really doesn't work out. I'm still trying to make it work though Thanks for the offer! That pesky other side of the country thing gets in the way of so many things doesn't it?

[jenaero]

If you've got cats, you could make a cover for the tank out of chicken wire and find a way to secure it so the cats can't get in.

Even a 40 or 50gal tank would buy you some time. I got mine for I think $50 at superpet.

[sneakyburrito]

your 10 gallon tank could probably suffice for another..2 months or so. but yeh, when your turtles get bigger, its more worth it to buy a stock tank or rubbermaid container. alot cheaper and you get more space. unlike buying tanks. its like 1 million bucks for a 200 gallon tank.

[xsavingsaturdayx]

i got a 50 gallon rubbermaid container in the dollar store for 2$
my turtle's love it

[Boogerbutt02]

a cover on a rubermaid container or a stock tank will keep the cats out... look at tractor supply or a horse feed store for a stock tank... they are much easier to clean and not as accessable for a cat because of the high sides... Like others have said your tank will do for now... just watch them for agression... a female RES will need 120 gallons min. and a nesting area... I am not trying to scare you I am just giving you the facts... so if you have four females, which you cann't tell until they are 4 inches, you will need 480 gallons.

[Boogerbutt02]

good luck

[tsinivari]

Will the cover on a rubbermaid container not keep out too much air? (Not to mention, make lighting impossible except when I'm there to closely supervise).

I appreciate all the suggestions and I do realize I'll have to upgrade.

As for having four females...well...I've already accepted the fact that while I rescued two more yesterday to bring up the total to four, there's no way I'll be able to maintain four adult RES...and I'll either let the person that does turtles at ARC find them homes, or find someone who can give them an adequate home myself between now and then.

As for aggression--as I said the only aggressive behavior shown at all thusfar (and this is since August) was during one feeding, Murphy snapped at Connor, but nothing since. And the new babies...they have mirror attitudes to the existing ones. Which is one is very social and the other hides. The social one sorta hangs with Connor (the other social one) and it's kinda cute.

I got the thermometer for the air tonight and my basking area is around 92 degrees, and I got a UVA/UVB bulb, as well as a heat basking bulb...and have two filters running (a 20 gallon filter in my price range won't fit, but I had already accidentally bought a second one for a 10 gallon and two of those fit beautifully). Water temp holds at 78 degrees.

The dock will hold all four (as they proved last night) and the cuttle bone is floating for them to eat.

A note on veggies: the two I had before the rescues went right for carrots, they like them. I'm going to take them out and try to get the two smaller ones to eat...but i realize it could take a few days even with proper environment for them to acclamate and start eating for me.

[Boogerbutt02]

for the cover get chicken wire... Others on here can tell you the size to get so that it will let the light in... and air shouldn't be a problem with this...

[CountryGirl68]

Will the cover on a rubbermaid container not keep out too much air?

What was meant as "a cover on a rubbermaid container or a stock tank" wasn't the actual cover that comes for the rubbermaid containers. You can fashion a cover using chicken wire with holes that are 1/2". To secure it to the container is quite easy. If you buy the 2X5' rolls of chicken wire, it comes wrapped with a single strange of wire. You can use the wire to secure the cover onto the container - wrap the wire around the container and then "hook" it onto the cover. Chicken wire works well (I use that) and it's cheap.