General Care Discussion :: New to turtles, wondering how bad of shape mine is in.

[Squirrel]

Hi,

A friend of mine gave me her female RES a couple of days ago, and its fairly obvious from reading this site over that everything my friend knew about turtles was from inexperienced pet shop clerks. This was a bit of an unexpected expense, so I really can't afford to take the turtle to a vet, but I figured I'd see if anyone here has any advice.

The turtle is about five inches, and is in a 40 gallon tank. I can't do anything about that at the moment, but I will certainly be upgrading the tank as soon as I can afford it. I've read over the habitat section of the site, and have been working on getting the tank as much up to standard as possible.

My primary concern is that her skin color is mostly faded grays and browns, she's been shedding skin quite a bit, and she has some discoloration and what I'm guessing to be pyramiding on her shell. I'm assuming most of that is from diet and lighting, but I'd like to be sure.

Her diet has been nothing but food pellets and an occasional krill treat. I'm trying to start her on dandelion leaves, but I'm not sure how much to give her just starting off, or even how to get her to actually eat them.
Until now she's been getting uva only for her basking, and only for a couple hours a day. I've put up UVA + UVB lights, and I've been working on getting the temperature right, so I'm hoping that'll help.


Is there anything that seriously wrong besides what I've already mentioned? I'd appreciate any help I can get with this.

[octpusgirl8]

Well, the shell doesn't loook great, but it doesn't look all that bad either. She has a lot of retained scutes but it doesn't look like any shell rot. There are some spots that could be a fungus, but they could also just be beat up old scutes too. A dry pic of the shell would help a lot. As for the skin color, i've heard that lack of UVB light can cause loss of color. Good for you for doing your research and trying to correct her living situation! All the must-haves are listed on the main site, it's extremely helpful for new turtle owners. Get her a different tank as soon as you can, a hex tank is all wrong for a turtle, besides being a little too small. How old is she? She may or may not grow more, you'll want to take future growth into consideration when you're looking into upgrading the habitat. Keep offering different veggies, even if she doesn't eat them at first. Sometimes it takes a while, but it's really important to get her to start eating them. Try thin strips of carrot, the sweetness and color tend to attract vegetable-shy turtles.

[mikee]

Squirrel – If the colors are correct, I have never seen one this color. You are in the right track with the correct lighting. Also make sure that your filter is working correctly. Your water should have a turn over rate of at least 5 times per hour. I would give it more vegetables and calcium. Don’t be afraid of the pellets. I use Reptomin and for the most part they are good. I would add some calcium also. My quick fix would be to continue the pellets and veggies and some feeder fish. Get some small ones and freeze them over night and feed them one along with the pellets every day for a week and then only one a week until her color makes a come back. I may have been getting too close to the light to cause this. How is the water temperatures? I would like some other feed back on this turtle.

[grey goose]

From what I see, it looks like bad/poor diet. The shell has some pyramiding, the color may be due to lack of UVB or not being able to bask.
Reduce the protein, feed pellets every other day, about the amount that will fit inside her head, lay off the krill or other treats that are high in protein. Try offering some romaine or red leaf lettuce (not iceberg) everyday, she may ignore it at first, but keep trying. Get some cuttlebone, remove the hard backing and break it up into bite-sized pieces and let 5-6 pieces float around everyday.
Tank temps for an adult should be around 75-76F, a little warmer for babies. Basking temp should be around 90F. The UVB should be a 5.0 and positioned about 12" away from the basking area. The basking area itself should be easy for her to climb onto, and large enough for her to get completely out of the water and dry out.

[Squirrel]

I'm not sure about her age. I know my friend had her for at least three or four years. As far as the spots on the shell, it doesn't really seem like fungus to me, but then most of my experience with fungus has been lab cultures, so I don't really know. I'll try to get a dry shell pic tomorrow.

The filter my friend gave me is seriously underpowered for the tank size, so I'll be getting a new one this week. It's amazing this turtle has lasted as long as it has; bad lighting, a 15 gallon capacity filter in a 40 gallon tank, no veggies, no calcium, and the tank was only cleaned a couple of times a year.
I'm using Wardley's food pellets at the moment, since that's what she's used to, but I think I may start giving her a bit more variety once she settles in. As far as calcium, is keeping a chunk of cuttlebone in the tank enough?
Is there any alternative to the feeder fish? I'm not quite comfortable with that idea.
The water temperature is 74F and the basking area is about 88F. I'm not sure what it was before I took her, but I know she's never had a heater in the tank. That's another thing that's on my shopping list.

I'm kind of torn between buying a new basking platform and building one. What she has now is a Turtle Dock that is missing a couple of suction cups and is too big to attach in a hex tank properly. I don't plan on her staying in that tank long, but I know I need to get her something that she can climb on easier in the meantime.

[grey goose]

RES can go several years before symptoms of poor husbandry will start to show.
When you buy the new filter, get one that you can use when you get a larger tank. You didn't say how large she is but 10 gallons per one inch of turtle is the rule.
The calcium should be cut up into pieces she can handle, although I have put a large chunk on a veggie clip and placed it in the side of the tank just below the waterline and let them gnaw at it...
Stay away from feeder fish for now (fat and protein), maybe introduce them later, when you get a bigger tank.
74F is right on the border of being too low, but it may encourage her to bask more.
Hex tanks pose some problems for turtles. they are too high and narrow, maybe look around (classifieds, craigslist) for a used 55-60 gallon tank and stand?

[Squirrel]

I mentioned in the first post that she is 5" (carapace length), so her tank is about 10 gallons below the minimum. I'm keeping an eye out for used tanks, but I'm pretty tight for cash at the moment, so it's likely to be a couple months before I can afford anything (unless I find some sort of miraculous $10 tank deal. eh, you never know).

I think I'm going to see what I can find for non-toxic building materials and put together an out of the tank basking platform to give her a bit more actual tank space.

On the plus side, it looks like she's finally decided she likes dandelions.


Thanks for the advice.

[grey goose]

Cool.

[steve]

I also see some retained scutes and a long-term fungal infection. The danger about the retained scutes is that it takes much longer to shed, leaving more areas to a possible infection under the retained scutes. When this happened to my RES, the fungal infection made the shedding much more difficult and made the shedding scute layer appear opaque. This makes it impossible to see an infection underneath. From what I have seen, fungal infections can get deep but do more damage to the surface of the shell. So I would first check to see if she is shedding... when she is out of the tank, gently push down on one of the larger scutes... if there is water coming out (even a little), then there is an air pocket and she is shedding. Generally, we tell people not to "help" remove scutes that are shedding mainly because it is natural and some (most) members are too inexperienced to handle their turtle in such away.

Retained scutes have a difficult time coming off and the fungal infection easily adds to you problem. Poor living conditions, especially a lack of basking also contribute to chance of infection. Other areas that are susceptible to infection are the seams between the scutes. They can be infected as well, especially if water is trapped underneath since the retained scutes are often very thick and push against each other closely.

I would take her to a vet anyway, at least to see if they can help with any shedding scutes. If that is not an option, I would find someone local who has experience with turtles and can take a look at those scutes.

[SpotsMama]

I had the same experience steve did. My turtle's shell was worse even than yours when I started trying to fix it. It took about a year for all the bad scutes to come off and for the fugus to cure. The importance of good basking under good UVB light cannot be overemphasized.

Insufficient vitamin E in the diet is often implicated in retained scutes. You can give your turtle food rich in vitamin E and perhaps that will help. Here are some suggestions:

Foods with vitamin e that are good for turtles:

Tomato
Sweet potato
Turnip greens
Blueberries
Apple skin

Foods with vitamin e that are unfortunately not good for turtles so should be avoided:

Broccoli
Spinach

I doubt any topical treatment would be terribly effective right now because the layers of retained scutes are so thick. When the retained scutes finally do come off, to clear the last bit of fungus you can use silver sulfadiazine (SSD), also known as Silvadene, which is only available by prescription. Rub it on the white spots nightly then dry dock your turtle overnight.

I'm worried about your turtle's skin. Turtles get skin as well as shell infections from a poor habitat. Can you post a photo with some skin showing? All I can see in the photos above is a nose!

[Bumby's Mom]

The tank really isn't that bad. She will be fine in a 40 gallon. Just get a proper filter and feed her right and she should be fine.

[kimberly183]

Squirrel -

Congratulations!

Craigslist is awesome for used items. I am just careful to follow the cleaning/disinfecting instructions here on the website if you have doubts.

In fact, we just got a 55 gallon last night for our guys from people on Craigslist. (Tank, stand, split hood, two lights, underground and waterfall filter, rocks, heater - the whole shebang for $125!) Their other tanks were so pristine and the fish healthy, I think I will take the site's advice and assume the best.

I am always happy to see animals removed from poor living conditions caused by lack of preparation and knowledge. Kudos for you!

The saddest thing I have heard about recently was the two ferrets our aquarium people rescued. As we were picking the tank up last night, the husband came home almost in tears. He had just rescued two young ferrets from a family who, get this, was keeping them in a STYROFOAM COOLER (complete with lid). Shameful. I am by no means putting your friend in this category, but I am putting the pet store clerk there . . . knowledge is power! And this site is invaluable!

[RunninWideOpen]

I agree. the 40 gallon tank at this point isn't a HUGE deal.....improper filtertation is. When you do get a bigger tank....get one she can grow into. Assuming she is actually a she......she could grow to be up to 12" long, requiring a 120gallon tank.

Is she basking a lot now?

The diet doesn't sound too terrible. I've read many posts where the turtles were only fed cat food, or other bad things, for their whole lives.

Add some cuttlebone to the tank for her to chew on when she wants. Just add the veggies and see if she'll eat them or not. It may take a week or two. If she still doesn't eat them, there are some great methods to make it more enticing in the feeding and nutrition section of the main site.

[Squirrel]

Ok, I checked the scutes and they don't seem to have any air pockets. I got the new filter today. I could only afford the 40 gallon capacity one, but I'm keeping the old filter and I figure with frequent partial water changes it should work until I can get some more money together.

[mikee]

Squirrel -- What is the gph of your filter? The larger the filter area and at least 5 exchanges per hour is preferable. This turtle will need constant care and good husbandry. Good Luck!!