General Care Discussion :: He's sick and (prob) dying. Suggestions

[VanIsle]

I think i did something dumb. Had my turt about 6mts now, and all has been fine. Until two weeks ago, when i was cleaning his tank, i thought it would be good for him to get some 'real sun' while i cleaned. i put him in a small tank with some room temp water outside (water about 72f, air bout 80f). He was outside about an hour, and i even had him on the grass and he was motering around. Then i put him back in his tank (water temp 77, basking 91).
Since then he has basically stopped eating. The first few days he chewed his pellets, but would spit them out. He also stopped eating his lettuce (which he used to devour). Over the last two weeks i;ve tried different pellets, and diff lettuce, carrots, even strawberries. He has no interest in any of it. He will not even attempt to open his mouth to bite anymore (not even my finger!) Obviously he has become very lethargic over this time too. The last two days he has been sleeping almost constantly. Mostly in the water, but he will go up to his basking area and lay there too. Sometimes he's up there late at night, i'll turn off the light, put the screen on top, and i wake up to find him still laying up there (that can't be good right?)
His tank is clean, i've used those little 'turtle' shaped things in the water to prevent diseases etc. He is NOT swimming in circles, he floats evenly, i see no coughing or sneezing, only the odd bubble from his nose.
Now i know it's most likely he caught a cold from the cooler temperatures, but (and this probably sounds dumb) the cooler temps wouldn't have caused a desire for him to 'hibernate' would it? Oh, btw, i still see feces in the tank ( i vaccumed it two days ago) so somehow he is still expelling stuff, but he sure isn't eating anything.
Any suggestions on what would help, or what has worked for you to get him to want to eat? Is there even hope of a recovery or should i prepare for the worst? Sorry this post is so long.
Take care.

[crackerlady2007]

VanIsle, I don't think it was dumb to put him in the natural sunlight. That sounds fine to me. I've done it before with no diverse effects. How old is your turtle? If he's very young and grown then sometimes they just like to sleep. Is your heat light working? Sometimes if they can't warm up enough, they don't digest their food right; that makes so they won't eat, because they are not hungry. I don't think it's anything too serious, but if you are concerned, you could take him to see a vet.

[mikee]

Van I -- I also think there is not much to worry about. I would keep an eye on the water and basking temps and wait until you see if he is going to eat. They can go a week or so without eating. Try and feed him by hand as that is the only way you can keep an eye how much is eating. I it get into a second week without eating I would take him to the vet. M.

[taylor_a]

Those turtle shaped things you mentioned are frowned upon I think....since turtles sometimes tend to munch on them and it gives them a gut ache.

[SpotsMama]

For a sick turtle, raise the water temp to around 80 or even 82. Keep the water very clean and avoid stressing him (ie, don't pick him up unless you have to). For food, try anything you can think of to get him to eat. Unless he feels really bad he should be interested in tuna, shrimp or boiled chicken. Some turtles are attracted to things that move, so you could offer him a live earthworm. Also, let him soak in a 50% solutiion of Pedialyte and water for around 20 minutes a couple of times a day. Pedialyte is a drink for sick children you can get at places like Walgreens.

Then, please take him to see a good herp vet. It may be that he has an infection that antibiotics can cure.

I don't think the outing to get sunshine made him sick. He was probably already coming down with something.

I agree about removing the turtle shaped block. It's probably a sulfa block and it's not a good idea to keep it in the tank for a couple of reasons, one of which is that bacteria will develop a tolerance to it if they are around it all the time, then the sulfa won't be effective as a medication to treat illness when you need it. If it's been in there for a couple of weeks and your turtle hasn't gotten well, then it's not helping anyway.

Good luck. Please keep us posted. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[steve]

What was the water temp of that small container like? Like everyone said, the sun is good for them but not when they're in a container.

[VanIsle]

Steve, the small container was a 10Gal tank i have sitting around. I put about 3inches of water in it, and placed it outside. The water was prob 71 maybe 72 degrees. There was a large rock in the tank that he could climb up on to sun himself. But he ended up spending his time in the water (with his limbs tucked in. He was prob scared of the new environment)

I'll try to answer some question from the list in urgent care.

How big is your turtle? about 3inches.
How long have you had it? Since january

What is the water temperature? 78.5 right now.
Did you use a thermometer? yes
Are you using a water heater? yes
How much water is in there? 40Gal tank about 2/3 full.
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? canister fluval 305

What is the basking temperature? 91 ish.
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Tile
Is there a UVB light? yes, MVB 100watt

What have you been trying to feed it? pellets, shrimp pellets, lettuce,carrotts, strawberries,
When was the last time your turtle ate? at least a week, probably longer.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 40gal
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? no

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? His eyes don't appear swollen. But they are almost closed 100% of the time now. Even when i talk to him. It's been two days now that i haven't even seen him move. He is just laying on top of the plants in the tank.
I'll have to call around to see if there is a local vet who knows anything about turts.

[marisa]

If the temps ranged as you say they did, it doesn't sound like that's the problem. And, natural sunlight is one of the best things for him.

Was the grass he was on sprayed with anything? Could an insect have bitten him while he was walking around?

[steve]

Your setup sounds excellent, were there any symptoms prior to his outdoor incident? Have you tried any live prey to entice eating?

[VanIsle]

Steve, there were no sympoms prior to his being outside. He was very active and ate anything i put in his tank.

Update:
I took him to the vet yesterday. For whatever reason, the vet didn't think his change in behaviour was due to RI. The vet said yes, he's anemic right now, and not doing too good (I.O.W - prob won't survive) But he thinks it may be due to a parasite or something like that. So now i have to give him some de-worming medicine, and Vitamin B drops (to entice him to eat).
He said if there's more signs of runny nose, or gasping mouth, then come back and he'll consider going with antibiotics.

Honestly, i think it was a waste of time and money. I just spent enough to buy two new turtles by going to the vet, and nothing has changed. I won't go back to spend even more money so i can get the antibiotics that should have been given in the first place. I'm really disapointed in the vet. Even if the turt didn't need the antibiotics, i don't see what harm would have happened if some were given to him. The only thing it would hurt is the Vets bankbook (no second visit).
I hope the vet was right and the turt gets better, but i just can't justify spending enough money to buy him four times over. So far there's been no change in behaviour. i'm trying to force feed him now with a tiny plastic syringe, but even when i squeeze the food in his mouth, he just holds it there till i put him down, then he spits it out. He won't eat for the life of him.
Anyways, i'll keep you update if anything changes.
thx

[TheComputerGremlin]

VanIsle, you have to realize that if antibiotics are given without reason, problems can occur. Antibiotics aren't the cure-all for everything. We have problems with super-bugs in humans and it can easily translate into animals if we gave antibiotics when not needed. Also, antibiotics are harmful to any system, whether human or animal, as they disturb the natural balance. They could potentially damage the good bacteria.

I would doubt that the vet would charge you for another visit, but rather just the antibiotics if needed. If you feel the vet was incompetent, don't return to that vet.

And if the value of your turtle's live can be measured by a loss of some money, I hope that you do not get any more turtles or other animals. The welfare of every life is precious, and if you think it would have been better to let your turtle die and just buy another one, you are a terrible human being. Animals aren't disposable like an ipod.

[mat012]

I hope he is feeling better, Van I. And I am sorry gremlin, but I have to speak in her defense. I think you were a bit harsh. If the turtle were not sick and if vets didnt gouge owners of "exotic" animals with their prices I would agree with you. But it seems Van does have a very sick animal in spite of providing it a healthy environment. Clearly the turtle had appropriate care. Not everyone though has the money to provide extended professional care for ailing pets. Yes we all take responsibility for an animal when we bring it into our homes. However, the level of financial resources we can provide to extend the life of a sick one is different for all of us.

She provided a healthy safe environment. She consulted other knowledgeable pet owners when he seemed sick. She took the turtle to a vet. She has been trying to hand feed the turtle and nurse it at home. I dont blame her if she's sad and frustrated with the vet and the situation. I also dont judge her if she looks at a sad situation and says I just cant spend anymore money. We all do the best we can with what we've got.

Melissa

[ellman605]

I hope he is feeling better, Van I. And I am sorry gremlin, but I have to speak in her defense. I think you were a bit harsh. If the turtle were not sick and if vets didnt gouge owners of "exotic" animals with their prices I would agree with you. But it seems Van does have a very sick animal in spite of providing it a healthy environment. Clearly the turtle had appropriate care. Not everyone though has the money to provide extended professional care for ailing pets. Yes we all take responsibility for an animal when we bring it into our homes. However, the level of financial resources we can provide to extend the life of a sick one is different for all of us.

She provided a healthy safe environment. She consulted other knowledgeable pet owners when he seemed sick. She took the turtle to a vet. She has been trying to hand feed the turtle and nurse it at home. I dont blame her if she's sad and frustrated with the vet and the situation. I also dont judge her if she looks at a sad situation and says I just cant spend anymore money. We all do the best we can with what we've got.

Melissa

We need not start a fight here. Nothing wrong was said by Gremlin.

Antibiotics without reason can really cause problems. It would be very smart to get a second opinion from another herp vet.

[VanIsle]

Mat012, thank you for the post, it was well said. I agree, we don't want to start a fight on the board, but to address Gremlin - I think we all place a certain value on our 'pets'. Some have a higher monetary value than others. Obviously if you spent $2,000 on a pet, you wouldn't mind spending $800 on vets attempts to save if. But if the 'pet' in question was a $2 fish, most people would not spend $800 to save it. That does not make the owner a bad person. Gremlin's comments seem to say there should be no limit, and if there are, then we're bad. I disagree with that.

I want my turt to survive. I don't think he will. My previous comments were basically saying ' i wish i knew if he was going to live or not. If i knew he would pull through, then spending some money is fine. But if he's going to die anyways, then all-in-all, obviously like most of us, i would rather have not spent the money. Unfortunately, we don't know these things. I also wish i knew now if he was going to live or die. I would hate to see him suffer and linger for another two or three weeks, then die of starvation. I would rather euthanize him now, quick and painless, instead of watching him linger. I hope that doesn't make me a 'bad' person.

Anyways, let's stick to the topic at hand - the sick turt. He is still not eating, and spitting out what i do manage to squeeze into his mouth. He is so lethargic now, he rarely moves or opens his eyes. In fact, last night i picked him up out of the water and placed him on his basking platform at about 9pm (he didn't wake up). I turned the lights off at 11:30pm. Turned them back on at 830am (he hadn't moved) and the turt finally moved back into the water at 330pm today. I'll wake him up in a bit when i try to feed him again.
Does anyone know how long a turt can survive before they will starve themselves to death? It's been 3 weeks now since the change in his behaviour and refusing to eat. I can clearly see how his body is shrinking under the shell now. I post more if there is a change in his condition. thx.

[mat012]

Did the vet do an xray? I wonder if he didnt swallow something outside. How sad.