General Care Discussion :: pet co markting death traps

[steve]

from http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/deathbowls.htm

WHAT ARE DEATH BOWLS? - Glen Jacobsen
Copyright © 2003 World Chelonian Trust. All rights reserved

Death bowls are the flat plastic turtle bowls with palm tree that so many of us old geezers remember from our youth. There is absolutely nothing about these bowls that will do anything to keep a turtle alive.

There is no provision for a basking light or UV source. If there is no basking light the turtle is not warmed enough to digest its food -- no UV source leads to MBD unless D3 supplemented.

If a light is positioned over the basking area it will cook the entire bowl and the turtle or at the very least not allow for any temperature gradient.

If placed in the sun, the turtle simply cooks.

Larger sliders find them easy to escape from.

The combination of being so shallow and without filtration means that in a matter of minutes after cleaning the bowl the water once again resembles a sewer.

There is no hiding place.

All of the above = Death Bowl. The only thing that would be worse would be to give a free can of dried flies (turtle food of yesteryear) with each purchase.

[echopulse]

If I'm going to be attacked, I'm done with this conversation. I know that the turtles will probably not die in those bowls, if kept in them for a just a few months. 90% of the turtles will survieve in them. No, they won't be as happy as if they had a bigger aquarium. Then again, I think most people would also like to have a bigger house than they do. But that's life. Not everyone can have a big house. Same with turtles. But it's a lot better than the 90% of the turtles that die in the wild.

[fishandcandy]

Plenty of the turtles won't die.
I have a 2.5 inch RES that was kept in a shoe box sized critter keeper for the first 2 years. It had fish tank gravel, no basking spot, and sometimes as little as an inch of water. No filter, no lights. When I got him, he was healthy. Fairly nice shell. He needed to shed and there's some slight pyramiding but it was nice and hard.
But I still totally disagree with you.
"They won't all die" isn't really a valid argument against the facts above. This isn't about "happy" turtles. This is about basic care requirements for your pet to thrive and be healthy. If someone wants a small pet that can live in a little box, they should get that. Not a turtle.

[ellman605]

i have to back up echo on this, no where did he say "they all won't die"....

[DanielRES1180]

The old "they aren't going to die" statement isn't a strong enough argument. Its like torturing an animal in silence (turtles can't bark or meow) but still letting it live. It's kind of like the dog example, if the dog is living in the box that leaks from every place imaginable during the rain, the simple fact that its going to live through the elements doesn't cut it these days. If you have a reptile in a death bowl and can't afford proper-sized tank, it would be better to sell it to someone that can bear the cost to put the poor thing out of its suffering. Sure, I can understand the three inch turtle in the 20 gallon tank, but still torturing it in the death bowl is just that, torture, and its also irrational. Back on the pet-co subject, I could possibly agree to it being sold as a temporary home for the turtle, in case you still have to set the habitat up, but they should give tips that it should only be used in special occasions, such as trips, habitat preps, etc. But they should, possibly for the first time in history of pet stores that sell reptiles, introduce the 10 gal to 1" rule.

[PaperFeathers]

Wow! That thing can house a GALLON of water in it?

I think I'd rather put my creature in a really big pot, pan, or plate than that.

Anyway, Rubbermaid containers also aren't expensive whatsoever. Roomier, more effective, and I wouldn't feel as guilty.

[echopulse]

It has nothing to do with price. It has more to do with how much space someone has in thier house. A lot of people just don't have the space in their room to put a big tank.

[fishandcandy]

In that case, they don't have space for a turtle. Originally didn't you say you suggested this for a temporary hatchling habitat for the first 6 months?

[sonyj]

In that case, they don't have space for a turtle...

I couldn't agree with you more. If they do not have the room for the right size tank, then they do not need the turtle as a pet... Period!

[cam722]

It has nothing to do with price. It has more to do with how much space someone has in thier house. A lot of people just don't have the space in their room to put a big tank.

If you can't provide the PROPER habitat/environment for a pet then you shouldn't have it at all. Like getting a rottweiler knowing full well you have a tiny apartment and no place for it to run around.

[DanielRES1180]

You could say it has to do with the space, but it can also be with the person. For example prior to housing the turtles in my room, I just didn't have the space, but with the proper shuffling and moving and reorganizing, I got more than the desired space for the turtles. However if someone is a cram-junk-in-your-room freak or plain lousy when it comes to cleaning and reorganizing, then duh, they are more than likely to not have enough space. But that's just my opinion.

[Martha]

I couldn't find where to post the review of the product. I was at the spa the other day, and learned that one of the women working there had purchased 2 hatchlings for her son as well as the death trap lagoon. One of the turtles recently died. I was so glad that I had read through this forum, and was happy to pass on the 10 gallons per 1" of turtle rule.

My own turtles were in the lagoon until I came across the forum. I went to the store that day to upgrade. In retrospect, I think that the size is not the main issue... it's the quality of the water. Plus, there really isn't an effective way to get the UVA and UVB bulbs unless you rig some type of contraption above the lagoon. Plus, there is not a way to hook up a filtration system.

I still feel just awful for subjecting my baby turtles to the cramped lagoon for so many months.

[echopulse]

You can use a regular desk lamp with a UVA bulb. Many people do that. But you guys will be happy to know our business is closing. I'm going to join the millitary. But my own turtles are still doing great.

[fishandcandy]

Just curious... what kind of habitat do you have for your turtles?

[echopulse]

Here's a pic.

http://joshuasplace.net/images/turtle2.jpg