General Care Discussion :: Jagged scutes/proper shell formation

[sarahji]

Hi everyone,

So I just noticed that the edges of my turtles' shells, especially in the rear, are getting jagged/sawtooth/fringed. The individual scutes are kind of separated, as you can see in the following pictures (like teeth that aren't quite straight across). The first pic is Otto and the second two are Sal. Am I overfeeding them?! More info below...





They're about a year old. At first, I was feeding them only pellets, but for at least six to eight months now (thanks to redearslider.com), I've been feeding them pellets every other day and veggies (mostly red leaf lettuce but sometimes other lettuces/greens, carrot, sweet potato, etc) the rest of the time. A couple chunks of cuttlefish bone every week or so, the occasional dried river shrimp, and lots of UVB light.

As for amounts, it's hard for me to judge a portion the size of their heads, so maybe I overdo it a little. I try to resist their begging. Also Otto barely eats any veggies... a lot of times he seems like he'd rather just go hungry than eat them. Maybe he's getting too much protein for that reason!

I searched the forum and it looks like there have been some conflicting answers to this question.

Here (http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewt ... 31&start=0) Marisa thinks these "jagged edges" are a sign of overfeeding, perhaps too much protein, and here: (http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewt ... 18&start=0) everyone seems to think the turtle looks perfectly healthy (but granted, they weren't moderators, so maybe they aren't as well-informed). And finally, in this entry (http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewt ... =5&t=27223), the culprit is identified as retained scutes.

For fun and comparison, here's a pic when I got them - a year ago today! Maybe they weren't that straight then either.



Thanks for your help - this forum is so wonderful!

[Diamondbacks4Life]

Well I see how it can be conflicting but the jagged look comes from retained scutes with very degrees of a wrong diet usually overfeeding and as for the pic, a slight jagged look is normal and usally disappears right after a shed. Usually right when the shell starts to look jagged is when the turtle is about to shed. Obviously the overfeeding with retained scutes has the more jagged shell look.

The jagged look you got going on with your turtles is the stat where the scute for some reason stays so locked together that they never get pockets of air or water between them and the shell stays perfectly fine and never looks like it has stuck scutes except the jagged look. After awhile though I do notice the shell gets like a glaze look to the shell. Also like you said Otto is the one not eating the veggies and is mainly taking in protein and he happens to have the more jagged look. So really you might not actually be overfeeding him but he is just taking in only protein. Really there is nothing you can do to get those retained scutes off and you just have to hope they one day come off but it will probably stay like that like the res below. Its not hurting the res having those scutes stuck on. Very good topic to show a turtle that had retained scutes and then finally started shedding them. Start on this page and keeping going through it to see the dramatic difference. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24134&start=60

The pic below is retained scutes with a slight glaze to the shell.

[sarahji]

Thanks, Diamondbacks!

Couldn't seem to click on that link, sadly.

So it sounds like perhaps they're not shedding their scutes. I swear when I was browsing around the forum last night I found some advice about how to help them shed, but I can't seem to find it now. Anyone have any tips? Even if it's just "get a hotter basking light to encourage them to bask more"? Or is there something about rubbing oil on their shells?

Also, I noticed (it's not clear from the pictures) that Sal's carapace is noticeably lighter/more tan-colored than Otto's. Maybe that could be the "gold-colored" pre-shedding look people have mentioned? Both of them did seem to be shedding skin around their necks a few months ago (translucent gauze-like skin hanging off).

[sarahji]

Oh! And this is the UVB light I'm using:
A Zilla "Tropical 25" 13-watt fluorescent bulb.
http://www.petco.com/product/108454/Zil ... -Bulb.aspx

Also have a 75-watt incandescent to get 'em to bask and a Zilla "Day Blue" full-spectrum bulb for heat and light.
http://www.petco.com/product/111467/Zil ... SiteSearch

[steve]

Are they the same size/age? Those edges of the rear marginal scutes along with the gular and humeral scutes are the hardest ones to come off -- they just need extra time.

Basking is probably the best thing to encourage shedding, especially in sunlight (if you can take your turtle outdoors). Some think certain foods like blueberries help too.

That UVB light seems OK and you can just use a regular incandescent. Or if you're willing to spend a little more, use a halogen light, but you'll probably need a larger lamp fixture.

[sarahji]

Thanks, Steve.

Yep, same age as far as I can tell, although Sal was a tad longer last time I checked. I haven't actually noticed any of their scutes having shed so far... dunno if I *would* notice. Their skin around their necks, yes. Scutes, not that I've noticed.

Good to know my UVB is adequate. It would be fun to take them outside, but I have to be very, very careful - I don't have a yard!

[sagoy]

I've also had my RES' shells look like that. When they shed, would you see the scutes in the tank or would they dissolve or something? My res don't have that retained scute look anymore but I haven't found any scutes in the tank.

[steve]

They don't dissolve... it's possible your turtle has eaten bits of it.

[sagoy]

Is it okay for turtles to be doing that?

[steve]

I guess not, but I would try to get rid of it.