General Care Discussion :: Do RES Play Possum?

[penelope]

The other day Penelope exhibited every sign of being dead, except for blinking her eyes.
She is dry docked, on meds and over time is learning to keep her mouth shut when she sees the meds coming. We have to deliberately tick her off to get that mouth open and the meds in...

Anyway, the other day when I picked her up for "med time" she didn't move anything - no flailing (her arms and legs were extended, but not moving), refused to open her mouth, didn't retract her head as the meds approached (like usual). All she did was slowly close her eyes, keep them closed for a second and slowly open them.
If it weren’t for the slow blinking and shallow breathing, I would have "pronounced" her dead - she had every other indicator.

So we pushed the envelope - playing with her toes, turning her upside down for a few seconds, rubbing her head, you name it - no reaction whatsoever except blinking her eyes.

We put her back in her box, and she still didn't move at all. Then we started tempting fate, touched her tail, her front legs, her back legs, rubbed the top of her head, approached her head on and rubbed the bottom of her neck -
No reaction. No movement. Just blinking eyes.

A few hours later, I brought her out and she was a little spunky. I put her in a very shallow bin of water and, voila! It was like nothing ever happened - except she still refused to open her mouth! We finally won the game by taunting her with a feather (something new to her).
I added more water, let her swim a bit, she ate, I put some eye drops in and off to bed.

It's been two days and she is acting normal for a gal in her condition.

So..hmmmm...ever had this happen before?

Was she playing possum to avoid the meds?
Have a near-death experience?
Or what?

It was the oddest thing...

[steve]

That's pretty strange. I don't think I've heard of anything similar for RES. Could she just be tired and exhausted? How is her appetite lately?

[Diamondbacks4Life]

Ive never heard of a res doing that before either just incases of it being close to death from sickness or drowning. Though seems weird that yours would of been a near death experience since he recovered in hours.

[penelope]

She's eating a bit, as long as it's tuna or salmon, or salmon, or tuna, or...well you get the picture. She's eating a tablespoon or so once or twice a day. I keep trying to get those dandelions and pellets in, but she will have nothing to do with them.

[penelope]

It happened again. She was out for a swim and one minute, I heard the familiar sounds of trying to escape. By the time I walked down the hall to get her there she was laying there splayed out under water in the same position as last time, not moving at all. The water was only about 4-5" deep, so the only exertion needed to breathe was to lift her chin. She wasn't there long enough to have drowned.

Anyway, I picked her up -no movement, and her eyes were partially opened, head extended. Put back in the water for a second - nothing, she just sank. I did it one last time with the exact same results. I called my son over, and I could see her tail moving r-e-a-l slow. I handed her over to him - she didn't flinch. He started rubbing her head and at first, there was no reaction. After about 30 seconds, she moved her head bit, then another second or so and she started moving her feet, and pulled in her arms. All total, she was out and looking lifeless for about 5 minutes, maybe a little less.

I put her back in her dry dock and she was clamoring like crazy to get out. So, I broke doctors order and let her walk around the bathroom. She was clamoring to escape from there. So, I put her back in her dry dock. It's been a good hour, so who knows.
Next vet visit is a week out. I'm going to call in them morning and see if I can bump it up.

[steve]

I think it would be a good idea. What's her dry dock/soaking frequency like?

[penelope]

Doctor has had her dry docked since Dec. 27th; gradient of 80-95; 30 - 60 minute swim twice a day. (I try to spread.them out so there is equal time between breaks) and a Betadine soak once a week.

[steve]

Does she go back into the tank or do you use a separate tub?

[penelope]

She used to go in the tank but at the last visit the vet said no tank; she wanted her in shallow water because of her RI.

So lately, it's been her regular feeding bucket until she is done eating (or about 20 minutes if she doesn't touch the food).
Then a swim in the bathtub in water just deep enough to cover her shell when "standing." If she didn't eat while in her bucket, I toss some pellets in just in case. She hasn't eaten in three days, and this latest episode happened in her feeding bucket. I left her alone hoping that she would eat if left alone.
Then...you got the story from there.

[steve]

That's very unusual, I hope the vet will be able to give you some more answers.

[penelope]

Hmmm...yesterday I was planning the funeral (figuratively).
Today - three short, shallow soaks. First one: she passed gas and then ate for the first time in four days. Second one: passed gas and ate a little more. Third one: she just hung out, but wasn't hungry.
I have an appointment with the vet tomorrow - I **really** can't wait to here her interpretation of all this.
Either I'm nuts, or Penelope is super-trooper.

[penelope]

The scoop on the vet visit:
Under normal circumstances the extreme lethargy (aka “playing possum”) Penelope has been experiencing would be of great concern to the vet. The fact that Penelope keeps bouncing back relieved some of her concern. Adding to this is the fact that Penelope is on a high dosage of Metronidazole (.83 mL every other day), which according to the vet can cause lethargy. She felt discontinuing the Metronidazole was the best first step.

As for Penelope’s bouts of barely breathing or not breathing at all – the vet explained that as scary as it is us, turtles can go quite a while without breathing (like hours). My obvious next question was, “Well, if she is not breathing, how long do I wait before I can safely say she is dead?” She said the answer does not lie in any specific amount of time. Instead it lies in the look of their eyes. Upon death a turtles eyes will sink in rather quickly. I had to clarify that one and the answer was “pretty quick.” She told me that as long as the eyes had their usual “buggy/puffy” look (not necessarily open), you probably won’t want to declare them officially dead. Still there area actions that should be taken:

- If this happens under water, don’t discount potential drowning
- Dry dock
- Keep warm (80-82 range)
- don’t simply assume they are dead
- see a vet right away
***Please remember Penelope is under ongoing vet care, so telling me to not to worry about these bouts are based on many factors and Penelope's known history***
~~
I see many questions about dry-docking on this forum, so I thought I’d clarify that while I was there.
***Again, this answer is based on Penelope’s situation, so take it for what it’s worth***
Generally speaking:
- Keep ambient temp at 80 or above
- Keep areas under the basking light higher (up to 95)
- It’s ok to move the basking lights closer than usual if that is what is needed to maintain that 80 degree ambient temperature (as long as there is room to move between the two temps ‘zones’)
- UV lights should remain the standard distance away to prevent UV overload
- Keep hydrated by giving a few 30 – 60 minutes soaks a day (keeping them at 80 or above at all times)
- Use shallow water to prevent drowning
- If dehydration becomes a concern, it is OK to wet a rag and place it on the bottom of the dry dock

Penelope's lungs are almost completely clear, but she still has a little pink left. So, two more weeks of antibiotics (Baytril) and dry dock.
With that said, this little hysterical mama is going to take a “chill pill” and ride it out.

Thanks for the support

[steve]

Two more weeks... that must feel like an eternity. Thanks for posting the detailed info, I think it will be a great help to those who read it.

[Diamondbacks4Life]

Agreed, reading what your vet said it sounds like you have a great vet you found. Some vet posts we get on here make me feel uneasy with what they said and you can tell they might be guessing as they dont generally deal with reptiles.

[Turtletime]

I am very impressed with your dedication to Penelope and your good vet. I had a Leopard Gecko that had a 0.75 inch abscess that I had removed. The leo survived the operation but I was unable to give him antibiotics and he didn't survive. The vet was awesome though. I hope Penelope pulls through. If I ever need a vet, I'll contact you; I live in Santa Clara.