General Care Discussion :: X-Ray of Mama w/ Eggs

[penelope]

Well these aren't of the greatest quality. This is one the vet was going to shred because it is not of "diagnostic" quality, so she let me have it.
Hopefully you can see something...it's kind of like "Where's Waldo?" If you double-click and zoom a bit, you can see some eggs a little better.
There is picture of an X-ray and a marked-up copy showing where the eggs are. My free-hand drawing skills stink, but maybe it will help decipher something.
The only reason why I can see all of them is because I have the original in my face.
There area total of 7 eggs - five are lined up and ready to go; two are higher up, waiting to drop (one is malformed, and one collapsed on itself).
Well...even if you can't decipher anything, it's still fun to see (sort of) a little RES skeleton:)

[Diamondbacks4Life]

The vet worried at all about the collapsed one or the malformed one with her passing it? Btw very cool!

[penelope]

Yes. She does have concerns.
I have to count the eggs. Since some are lined up and ready to go, she should start laying soon. If she doesn't start within a week, the vet wants to induce (only because) Penelope has signs of straining.
If she starts laying on her own and the collapsed or malformed ones don't come out, the vet will take another x-ray at the next follow up (2 weeks) and assess if they should be surgically removed.

[steve]

That's very cool. I really hope she pops them soon. Has the vet had prior experience with this kind of surgery? I usually hear that reptiles don't do well with general anesthesia.

[penelope]

I am hoping I don't get to the point where I have to find out.
In the meantime, I'll be doing my research.

[Diamondbacks4Life]

I really hope the surgery isnt like the youtube video surgery of an eggbound female. I hope its better preformed

[stopgaming]

How much did the xray cost you? I think my RES is gravid (no males). I tried to feel for the eggs by the hind legs but my RES keeps scratching me

[penelope]

I started to watch that YouTube video, but simply couldn't deal with it. I bailed within the first 30 seconds. I don't know what happened. All I can say is that I am praying she won't need it. That would be so way out there!!!

Its been 48 hours. I called the vet earlier to confirm instructions. She said that under normal conditions I would only need to put her to nest when she was showing signs of being super gravid.
However, in this case (evidence of straining, recuperating from illness, and no eggs), she preferred that I keep Penelope in an environment where she could lay eggs whenever the heck she feels like it, thus the suggestion to add a water tray (actually, a paint rolling tray, so she can use it as a ramp) - The vet's recommendation took into consideration the fact that Penelope has been dry-docked for the past 12 weeks. Keeping her out of water is the current norm, otherwise the advice probably would have been different.

Penelope has used the water in the tray to turn her bin to mud, yet continues to sit in the remnants of the water she left behind in the tray.

Earlier, when I took her out for food and a swim she didn't eat anything. When I put her back in the bin, she scratched around a bit (less than a minute) and then headed for the shallow water. I didn't want to disturb her, so I have no clue what she was doing.

About eight hours ago I peeked in and saw what looks like two very small egg shell fragment - only about 1/4 inch (one floating in water, one in the dirt). Yet, she was sitting totally still in the muddy water. I heard her scratch around twice this evening, but I am afraid to disturb her. So...I did a quick peek from afar and it looks like the dirt was disturbed, I'm guessing she was scratching around in the shallow, muddy water (????) In other words, I am clueless when it comes to this nesting stuff.

***Edit: Line 3 should have read, "...and it looks like the dirt was NOT disturbed..." (big difference)***

Questions are:
Is mud OK in the nest, or should I put in dry dirt so she doesn't have to sit in water?
Since she is spending 24 X 7 in the bin, when might be a good time to check for eggs? Common sense says to check when she is out for her swim / food. On the flip side, *if* she has quietly been laying in eggs in muddy water, how do I know if it is a good time to take her out for a swim / food? Yeah, a rhetorical question.
This is crazy!!!

[penelope]

@stopgaming -
Before hitting the x-rays do two things:
1. There is a good YouTube video on how to check for eggs - I just don't have the link on hand. If I find it, I'll post it - so check that out
and
2) if it is not urgent (i.e., illness of any kind, life threatening, or anything else that requires immediate attention) get pet Insurance first!!!!!
I wish I did, but once she was sick, I was out of luck.
So, for preventative check-ups, get the insurance BEFORE you go in.
If urgent, then who cares?
Anyway, once you hit the front doors, the insurance won't help you until the current care is complete. From what I hear, they accept or reject applications in a day or so, though don't quote me on it.

If you need x-rays, here's the scoop - for our visit, the x-rays and check-up cost me me 2 pedicures, 1 night out at the Cheesecake Factory, 1 good dinner at the Outback and maybe two movie tickets
OK - for real, it was $250 for the visit and all x-rays. Looking at the invoice, it was $150 for the first two views (lungs) and $60 for the additional ones (internal organs)....If I had to guess, I would say the $150 would be true for the first round (eggs or whatever) and $45 for the visit .
Dang! That little gal owes me quiet a bit...she better get healthy soon and get a job!

[steve]

Mud is not a substrate they would normally lay eggs into. Plain, normal dirt has worked for me, though they might like it a little damp.

[penelope]

OK - got a few bags of non-fertilized soil; so I'll do a switch-a-roo in the morning.

[penelope]

Did a switch. It worked, but she is egg bound. Vet deemed it an emergency, so we went right in. Now Penelope is at the vet's getting induced. Then she will stay over night and come home tomorrow. I'm being optimist here - I'm tired of being pessimistic.

Has the vet had prior experience with this kind of surgery?

Yes. She has on both her own Tortoise and others. We discussed the procedure in detail, but I'm not going to get into here. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[Diamondbacks4Life]

Did a switch. It worked, but she is egg bound. Vet deemed it an emergency, so we went right in. Now Penelope is at the vet's getting induced. Then she will stay over night and come home tomorrow. I'm being optimist here - I'm tired of being pessimistic.

Has the vet had prior experience with this kind of surgery?

Yes. She has on both her own Tortoise and others. We discussed the procedure in detail, but I'm not going to get into here. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

I actually wanna know though, for future references with other people and myself should it come up.

[penelope]

Five down, two to go!!
Sounds like the malformed one came out, leaving the one regular and the collapse one...
I am crossing my fingers and toes.

actually wanna know though, for future references with other people and myself should it come up

After she lays those last two eggs, and the concept / potential of surgery is gone, I'll fill you in.
I just really, truly, honestly, etc. **need** to remain in denial...This is all so crazy!
Adding fuel to the fire, is that not one single person in my social circle 'gets it' - quite frustrating; if Penelope were a dog...blah blah
just venting.

[steve]

Wow, great news so far. Let's go Penelope!