General Care Discussion :: New here, have questions!

[Mr.Shenanigans]

A little background, I've had my little aquatic friend for about 6 years now. Turtles are an awesome pet/hobby and I enjoy improving his habitat. My current setup is a 55 long, with a custom built above tank basking area that I built myself. It was a great idea because I can fill the entire tank and not sacrifice swimming area, and he def loves it. For filtration, i have a Fluval 304 canister filter which keeps the tank crystal clear. Currently, my dilemma has been water quality, more specifically ammonia. Lately he has been shutting his eyes while swimming, as If it was a struggle to keep them open. In addition, I added some fish to the tank (3 bala sharks) to compliment the tank and give him some exercise. They all died within 5 min! At this point I knew something was wrong, the ammonia levels ended up being off the charts! (around 8ppm!). I feel awful and didn't realize how out of hand this can get so don't get on me about it :/. What's the best way to fix this and keep the levels at 0. Also, would it be possible to train him to eat outside the tank, via a water dish with the pellets ? I know they need water due to lack of salivary glands so in theory this makes sense, but could it actually work? Food waste In the tank is an issue and I'm favoring switching from river rock to fine grain sand. I just don't have time to take him out and feed him, as I'm currently finishing up my undergraduate degree. Any insight would be great, thanks guys.

[dumbork14]

hello and welcome! what kind of water test do you have? the drop based or the strip based?

" i have a Fluval 304 canister filter which keeps the tank crystal clear" - clear water doesn't necessarily mean safe water you need to test your water not just for ammonia, but for nitrites and nitrates as well.

as for the feeding, turtles need water to swallow, not sure if the water-dish-with-pellet method will work.

let's see for the other member's comments.

[Mr.Shenanigans]

It's the API water test kit (droplets)for freshwater, tests for everything. And yes I know clear doesn't mean perfect. I haven't tested the others yet but solving the ammonia issue is my biggest priority. Yeah I'm not so sure either. BUT, I did notice at one time he found some tiny pieces of bark on his basking platform that he for some reason thought would be appetizing. Scooped it up, slid down the ramp and proceeded to consume it in the water. I will give it a try and see what happens, worst case he won't eat it.

[ljapa]

What type of media in the canister? What type of substrate?

Unless he he's only been in the tank a few weeks, you should have developed the nitrifying bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate. The fact that you have ammonia that high means you don't have enough media in the filter to grow the bacteria, your 304 isn't big enough or you are doing something like adding tap water without carbon or additives to prevent the chlorine/chloramines from killing off the bacteria.

I have a 55 gallon with a fluval 406 plus sand in the bottom, which will also host nitrifying bacteria. I have some tetras and a juvenile that is only about 2.5 inches. The tank has only been fully cycled for two weeks, but since then, I have not had problems with ammonia / nitrite.

I would think with just a turtle and no fish, you shouldn't have ammonia off the chart. Of course, your turtle has to be bigger, which is a larger bioload.

What is your water changing regime? How do you address the chlorine in the water?

EDIT:
Check out the filter thread http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30145 for many more details.

[MEandYouPhoto]

A little background, I've had my little aquatic friend for about 6 years now. Turtles are an awesome pet/hobby and I enjoy improving his habitat. My current setup is a 55 long, with a custom built above tank basking area that I built myself. It was a great idea because I can fill the entire tank and not sacrifice swimming area, and he def loves it. For filtration, i have a Fluval 304 canister filter which keeps the tank crystal clear. Currently, my dilemma has been water quality, more specifically ammonia. Lately he has been shutting his eyes while swimming, as If it was a struggle to keep them open. In addition, I added some fish to the tank (3 bala sharks) to compliment the tank and give him some exercise. They all died within 5 min! At this point I knew something was wrong, the ammonia levels ended up being off the charts! (around 8ppm!). I feel awful and didn't realize how out of hand this can get so don't get on me about it :/. What's the best way to fix this and keep the levels at 0. Also, would it be possible to train him to eat outside the tank, via a water dish with the pellets ? I know they need water due to lack of salivary glands so in theory this makes sense, but could it actually work? Food waste In the tank is an issue and I'm favoring switching from river rock to fine grain sand. I just don't have time to take him out and feed him, as I'm currently finishing up my undergraduate degree. Any insight would be great, thanks guys.

I think part of the issue is your filter. its not large enough to handle that much water. The Fluval 304 is Rated for 70 gallons of water but not turtle gallons. Unless you are cleaning it weekly its not going to be able to handle the bio load of the turtle. You need a filter that can keep up. Here is a link of filters and suggested uses. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30145


The ammonia content is essentialy the turtle's poop and urine. His water may LOOK clean but unfortunately its not.

[CactusJohn5]

I have to agree with some of the other posters and give some of my personal insight.

firstly, Welcome! do not take the advise people give here as a negative, most are trying to help and sometimes it comes across as attacking or criticing, and its just people trying to help.

Firstly, the filter is too small. Turtles need 3x the filtration that the filter is recommended for. So a 55 gallon tank, with 50 gallons of water would need a filter rated for 150 gallons of water.

Secondly, I do not have the proper filter for my tank, so i have to do a monthly water change: i take out 1 bucket put 1 in and repeat 5x. It takes about 20 gallons out and stirs it up enough that my water quality is acceptable.

Every 6 months a do a 100% tank break down, and clean my filter, install all new filter media and replace 100% of my water.

[PridgNYC]

Agreed, read ViepaCray's filter thread linked to by MEandYouPhoto. The 304 is just adequate for up to 30 gallons of turtle water, you need to add to or replace your filtration capacity. (Yes you can run multiple filters as long as you don't mind all the extra intakes and outputs) Make sure you have your 304 loaded as per the recommendations in the filter thread. You need lots of biomedia to handle the ammonia load of a turtle, right now you don't have enough, so I would start by making sure your current filter is loaded according to this diagram.. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30145#p288904

[The Troops]

To small of filters will cause many issues and is a health hazard to the turts.

Being that you also have a ammonia issue, airation will help get it down and keep it low. Ammonia chips will also help inside the filter. I have been doing that with my fish for over 20+ years and I knew it would be harder with turtles, but it is doing pretty well.. BUT, you do need better circulation or it will not make a difference.

[Mr.Shenanigans]

Wow, thanks a lot for all the responses. I did not realize that the 304 would not do the job. As I really don't have the funds to go pick up another filter, I'm going to have to pick up the Ammo chips and really stay on top of the water changes. The substrate currently in there is river rock (pebbles), although I have concluded that this was a horrible choice because it easily hides the uneaten food and other gunk that accumulates. Btw, for tap water, what are the best solutions to remove the chlorine and other harmful chemicals? I recently picked up API Stress Coat the other day and seemed to be a suitable solution, but is it enough? Also, how long do those products need to properly to de-toxify the standing water? I find it strange that none of these products state this but maybe its just me. Over the summer I plan to switch over to a 125 gallon, in which I will fill with sand as the substrate. For the future, what filter or combination of filters would be suitable for this size tank? thanks again.

[VeipaCray]

water conditioning chemicals often contain a hazardous chemical called sodium theosulfate. The API water conditioner definitely has it and if you read the MSDS sheet for The water conditioner it's says glaringly multiple times "hazardous to aquatic life" and other very scary things. Stress coat is not reccomended for turtles.

The best way to treat water is by filtering it through carbon. There's tons of home water filters available from small britta style pitchers to the carbon filter that you may have on your fridge for drinking water to this contraption viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33171

Having carbon in your filter media will also treat the water - just not prior to you putting it in the tank.

[seanwb]

Slightly different questions as I believe your setup may be borderline but still viable.

How big is the turtle?

How are you cleaning your filter? If you are rinsing it in tap water, then that will be your problem, as each time you clean it, the chlorine in the tap water will destroy the beneficial bacteria. In should be wahed in water taken from the tank.

Finally, when you mean food waste, do you mean uneaten food? Are you feeding it too much? This will massively increase the biological load the filter has to handle.

[VeipaCray]

How are you cleaning your filter? If you are rinsing it in tap water, then that will be your problem, as each time you clean it, the chlorine in the tap water will destroy the beneficial bacteria. In should be wahed in water taken from the tank.

The amount of beneficial bacteria potentially lost by rinsing it in tap water is so insignificant that it doesn't matter. Myself and countless others rinse the bio media regularly in straight tap water. The tiny bit of bacteria lost will repopulate in a few hours and you'll never see the difference.

Agreed that he MIGHT be able to get the 304 to work but it's probably lacking on biomedia. It's definitely lacking on water flow especially since the filter is a bypass design.

[seanwb]

On a big set up I agree it is not as important (and I do use tap water in my large set up).

On a set up close to the limit, try it and monitor with an amonia test kit. It takes about a week for ammonia levels to level out after cleaning in tap water, but zero effect whan cleaned in water from the tank.

More importantly - it depends on your tap water!

[VeipaCray]

Yes completely agreed.. it depends on your tap water and most tap water contains ammonia. What you're probably measuring is an increase in ammonia from the new water. If an aquarium is that close to borderline on bio media then I'd suggest the filtration is undersized and should be addressed. Additionally if someone is that close on bio media... don't use dirty tank water to clean the bio media. Use some distilled water or water that's been filtered through carbon. Drinking water from a fridge or a britta style tap water pitcher. Carbon filtration will remove chlorine / chloramine and shouldn't kill off any nitrifying bacteria.

[seanwb]

Ammonia not in new water. What I will see is a steady rise in ammonia (from zero) for about 5-6 days, followed by a drop as bacterial restablishes itself. In a set up not close to the limit you will not see this as the filter can easily cope. Where it is close on the limit it is noticable. If it rises too quickly then I am afriaid Tom Tom is fed a little less as well. Washing media in tank water results in no rise.

Simple solution is of course to add a new filter, but with very carefull management you can get away with a smaller filter. This is how some fishkeepers can keep 5 times the recommended fish in a tank. (Untill they have children and no longer have time for all the maintenance).

If I told you what filter was on one of my tanks, I think a few people on the forum would be screaming at me to change, especially given size of turtle. But.. ammonia zero, nitrite zero nitrates low. Turtle happy and water clear.

Obviously if people are buying new, rather than reusing exisitng filters they should buy the right size.