General Care Discussion :: Musk Turtle Shell Health??

[Resplendent]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to owning turtles and have taken two from a fellow teacher of mine. They were her personal turtles but I now have them in my classroom. One is a res and the other is a musk. I know the musk was found on the side of the road by her husband while ago but that's about it. I'm concerned about her shell and the condition its in. We have hard water here in San Antonio and at first I thought it was just that, some hard water build up. Now I'm not so sure what it is. She also has a spot on the top of her head that seems... Soft almost? I'm also concerned about the bottom of her shell. I've included pictures of everything.

I'm learning as much as I can as fast as I can because I'm pretty convinced they haven't been in the right environment for while now. They aren't basking at all and I've turned the heater down in hopes that makes them want to get out of the water but so far, no dice. She is pretty friendly and eats from my hand. I'm hoping that this is left over damage from being in the wild because the RES has no signs of any of this. His shell seems to be perfect.

I appreciate any advice!

[steve]

I'm a little concerned about the bottom shell (plastron) too. The top of the head looks like an old injury/infection, so it shouldn't be soft. The top of the shell (carapace) looks OK. As long as there are no breaches, a shed ortwo will take care most of those issues.

Back to the plastron, how fresh are those breaches? If it were a RES, dry docking and a little disinfectant/antibiotic would be the treatment. These look a bit deep and that might make it difficult to treat.

[Resplendent]

Honestly Steve, I'm not sure. I have gravel in there now, which I'm guessing could be causing it? I didn't inspect them when I got them and its been at least a month now. Could that much damage come within a month?

[Jeremiah]

Gravel is a poor substrate. It can lead to impaction.

I have a musk turtle, and it does seem natural for them to get some plastron pitting with old age, but not like in your picture. In fact, it almost looks like exposed bone--maybe from a cement impact. Do those spots smell bad or feel soft?

If the spot on her head feels soft, you really should go to a qualified herp vet to check it out. Musks are a little trickier to treat (like Steve mentioned, dry docking is not usually the healthiest option for them--most of them are quite aquatic, and some captives like mine never bask at all).

What are its water/basking temperatures that you changed them to? Since musks are primarily aquatic, you don't want to chill it too much.

[Resplendent]

What would you recommend as a substrate?

I had the water at about 85 and I've turned it down to about 73. I'll be purchasing a thermometer soon to know the actual temperature. I might also need to buy a better and bigger basking area. I was told that the RES use to bask all the time and I've never seen him bask. I read that they might not because we have a lot of activity in the room (its a small room but i only have 6 students) and that they might be basking once we all go home and its quite but I'm not sure.

[Jeremiah]

85 is a bit too high, and 73 is a good temperature (most people shoot for around 75-78, but like I said, I've seen some Adults okay at 65).

Personally, I don't use any substrate and my turtle is fine. I just include several fake plants for cover/enrichment. If you really want to use substrate, however, sand is popular and does well for spot cleaning (waste just sits on top until it gets siphoned out). The musks also like to burrow (and sometimes sleep) in it.

It's great that you're looking into improving the basking area. I'd like to suggest avoiding the "Zoo Med Floating Docks" because they will eventually sink under the RES's weight, unless you strap one on top of another. If you go to the "Indoor Habitats" forum area, you'll fine some fantastic DIY ideas from other forum members!

New RES will sometimes take a while to bask, but it sounds like you've been waiting for a while. Try putting some pellets on the basking area, and leave the room. If they're gone when you come back, then you can be pretty sure the turtle went up to eat them (and probably basked for a little bit). Just keep an eye out for any shell fungus from not basking. And yes, classrooms aren't the ideal turtle housing areas--low-traffic/no-traffic is always best, but at 6 students I don't think it's too disruptive.

I'd love to see a picture of your setup! How big is it, and I'm still a little confused as to whether or not the turtles are living together?

[Resplendent]

They are living together, that was going to be my next question! Is it okay? tis a 40 gallon tank, and with neither of the turtles being very large I figured that was okay. They seem to coexist just fine and generally just ignore each other. I have some fake plants in there, a larger rock, and a decoration cave thingy that came with the turtles. Musk loves to stay in there so i've left it. I also got a water filter and that is in there now as well.

I'm thinking I might get some cork wood for a basking area? I can hide the filter under there as well was my thinking.

I'll take some pictures when we go back to school and post on Tuesday.

[steve]

Do you know their genders? A male RES will become aggressive towards other turtles as they get older. If that is exposed bone, it might come off soon. In that case you will want to dry dock. This would actually be a good sign as it will have an opportunity to grow a scar over it.

[Resplendent]

The musk is a female and the RES is a male. That is based off my own deductions with looking at pictures and stuff. I think the RES is somewhat aggressive already, he does this thing where he put his claws in her face and shakes them really quickly. Its one of the weirdest things i've seen! She doesn't seem to care though and generally ignores him.

I'll check in on them first thing on Tuesday and see how she looks. I'll post an update then.

[steve]

At this point, I'd also think about plans on what to do when you need to separate them. The male RES aggression will only escalate.

[Jeremiah]

How is the turtle? Have you had a chance to take any setup pictures, today?

[Resplendent]

I did take some pictures today! I feel like how I have it set up is completely inadequate and wrong.

In comparing Little Girl's shell, I think it looks better but ya'll can be the judge. I also included some nice pictures of them just for fun

[Resplendent]

Some of them are kinda big, sorry!

[Jeremiah]

How many pellets do you feed them, and how often? The RES looks a little lumpy, to me. I think the musk's shell is looking better, too--my RES actually had a similar patch, and the vet told me it was like a slow-healing scar. Just keep an eye on it for any signs of infection, down the road. Especially the whitish region next to the rightmost plastron injury.

Your tank would be appropriate for the RES if it was filled all the way. As it is, both turtles need deeper water (Kinosternon are much better swimmers than some would have you believe). In terms of first steps, though, your water looks clean and that's the important part. Unfortunately, this setup won't sustain them for very long. Ideally, your musk could occupy this tank alone and your slider will need (at least) a 70 gallon tank (1 inch of shell = 10 gallons of water). Both of your eventual setups will require stronger filtration than your Tetra Whisper (which are good filters, but only for hatchling turtles). Check out the "Habitats and Equipment" discussion area; it contains great suggestions for both commercial and DIY filters.

I would also recommend orienting the heater in a horizontal position. What are your basking temperatures? The reason you don't see your RES bask may be that the "entry ramp" is a bit too narrow/difficult to cross successfully. I would definitely suggest wedging a piece of cork bark in there, just be sure to soak/clean it off first.

Again, I encourage you to get rid of the gravel!