General Care Discussion :: flakey shell with red discoloration and pits

[beejium]

my girlfriend purchaced a RES about 2 months ago and he/she has developed quite a personality. he/she is very observant, a little hard to hang on to at times. he/she is now about 7 inches head to tail (i never thought to measure him until now ). we have noticed that the RES has red blotches on the bottom and top of it's shell. it almost looks like blood under the surface. he/she also has pits on both sides top and bottom. the top of the shell looks like he/she got into a fight with sandpaper and the shell looks like it could peel away in layers. the arieas that connect the top and bottom parts of the shell look kinda soft, there are also soft spots on the shell. the skin seems to be continously shedding, while i know they shed, but it seems to be more than the norm. i seem to have to change the water 2-3 times a week and the filter has to be dismantled and cleaned atleast once a week. i will admit this is the first turtle i have had the chance of making friends with and i'd like to keep it that way.

[missibsu]

First of all, what is your set up like? How big? How many gallons? What kind of lighting?

Do the pits ooze? Do they have a funny odor? What color are they?

Are the red spots open sores, or do they look like they are below a couple of layers?

And, can you post pics?

Answering those questions will help us help you more. Provide any information that you think may be useful. If you need reference, there is a list of questions to answer in the urgent care section that are more detailed.

[marisa]

Your description of the shell makes me think of some stage of shell rot for starters, but a pic of the shell dry showing the affected areas would be very helpful...

Press on the red areas gently---does the color blanch at all, meaning does it disappear and return again? Is there any red in the seam (the line in between the scutes)?

You said your girlfriend got the turtle two months ago and he's now 7 inches (this is the shell length not including the curve of the shell?)...About how big was the turtle two months ago (an estimate)? Has he grown noticeably in the time she's had him? If so, what is the turtle being fed, how much and how often? If the turtle is being overfed, it will contribute to excessive shedding and shell problems, as well as general health problems eventually.

Does the turtle have plenty of calcium in the diet and a UVB light or access to direct sunlight (not through a window, etc.)?

What condition was the shell in when the turtle was purchased? Has the pitting occurred since then, or was it there to begin with? Was the shell soft in spots to begin with and have the areas grown softer? The soft spots--how soft are they exactly? Is there any odor to the area/s?

How big a tank is the turtle in? What is the water level in the tank? What kind of filtration are you using?

[beejium]

the tank setup is a 124qt plastic bin about half full aprox 8 gallons of water. we have tried using rocks of differant sizes as a basking spot, until we got a floating turtle dock. there is a 75w incandesent above his rocks @85+ degrees. for a time we did have a heater keeping the water between 75 and 80, until we noticed that his condition was getting worse. we did use the vita-shell 3 times, but it was too much of a hassle, he didn't like it at all. he seemed to never really use his basking spot, the one time i did get the chance to catch him there, he was half way on keeping the top of his shell out and bottom in the water. the water is about 7 inches deep. there is a wisper filter that draws from the bottom and flows out the top (5-15 gallon filter). he looked beautiful when we got him(6" head to tail) no discolorations no pits. the measurement does not include the curve, simply head to tail. the red spots seem to be a cople layers in (on the bottom of the shell) and don't blanch when u press on them. there dosn't seem to be anything oozing out of the pitts he dosn't smell nor the pits, but if the water isn't changed right on time the water smells like swamp. on the top the pits are simply white, the bottom they are clear-ish and have soft spots around them, soft enough that a finger nail can leave an impression. the edges of the soft spots are very red. it also seems like some of the spots are sensitive to the touch. he has had a calcium stone from the get go. the uvb bulb is a self ballest 15 watt florescent. it seemed like it started out small we saw a scratch on him, didn't think much of it maybe he rubbed a rock wrong or the cat was getting a little too curious the cat was kept out the room since. the few times i did let the cat in he just layed infront of the tank or jumped up to take a drink, poor cat always getting kicked out the room. anyway my girlfriend is taking pics of him, it's kinda cool they are fighting to see who has the bigger bite evan tough he's in rough shape he's active and alert. he deffinately knows who is who. the pics are on the way to be developed and will be posted as soon as they come in.

[missibsu]

The vitashell isn't recommended. It actually stops the shell from being able to breathe. If you only used it the few times I doubt that is what caused your problem, but extended use isn't good.

Also, what kind of calcium blocks are you offering? The ones shaped like turtles don't do anything for your turtle. Try some cuttlebone, peel off the hard back, and break it into small pieces. It's found in the bird section, and it is a form of calcium that your turtle can use.

I don't know much about the other spots, but I would venture to say that it's going to need some antibiotic treatments. Don't quote me on that. I am curious to see what the pics look like.

[beejium]

ok, yea we were using the ones i call petshop specials... they are the turtle shaped ones, we will try the cuttlebone. i was also wondering about the antibiotic treatments, are they bad if he dosn't need them? and how would we get them? the info that the turtle care was mostly based on came from the pet shop and the guy there dosn't seem to with it... his recomendations are quite a bit differant from the various care sheets we have found on the net and what everyone tells us. we had an unfortunate problem with the camera and we are going to take more pics. again we will post them a.s.a.p.

thanks for the help so far

[missibsu]

The people in pet shops are notorious for not knowing how to properly care for these turts. There are basic care sheets on this site as well as www.austinsturtlepage.com The care sheets are very similar and in terms overall care, are the same.

Antibiotic treatments will have to come from a vet, and should be gotten from a herp vet. I don't know that it will be the solution for the issue at hand though.

[beejium]

about how much food should a turtle this size eat? we have reptomin, tubifex worms, and wardleys reptile on hand. i also stated that the filter used is a 5-15, it's not, it's a 2-10 wisper internal filter.

[sonyj]

Basically you have a large turtle in a very small enclosure and this is what is causing your water to need to be changed frequently, and the fact that your filter isn't big enough.

You said he was 7inches head to tail - measure him again- this time only measure the shell length from tip to tip not including the curve. This is called SCL (straight carapace length) and is the standard measurement for telling how big a turtle is. So if he is 6 inches in SCL the he needs "at least" a 60 gallon tank/enclosure with as much water as it can hold without giving him room to escape. Currently, the container you have is around 31 gallons and is very inadequate for your size of turtle. The larger you go now the better you will be in the long run considering when he is full grown he will need at least 90-120 gallon tank/habitat.

Also, the filter should be rated for at least 3 times the size of the tank. So a 30 gallon tank needs a filter rated for 90 gallons. This and increasing the size of tank and amount of water he has will help tremendously with the water quality.

About the feeding, he should be getting a reputable pellet brand every other day - once a day - only the amount that would fit inside his head if it were hollow. A variety of veggies should be given daily as well. There's a list of what to feed and what not to feed in the feeding section of the forum.

[beejium]

ok first question is, could this be causing all of his problems? and second what kind of tank/enclousure would give him the most space, but take up little floor space in the bedroom? my girlfriend and i are currently living with my parents and space is an issue... right now we have 3, 10 gallon tanks, 1, 29 gallon and 2 totes housing 5 newts, 13 fish, 2 toads and the turtle. we went to country max and saw 50 gallon pond shell. we were thinking it might do for a little while, but i don't see any sence in buying something that needs too be changed out later. any suggestions?

[sonyj]

Bad water quality/ poor habitat can lead to shell problems, but I'm not sure how soon you'd see it show up. So it could be something that started before you got him.

I'm looking into a stock tank. You get them at feed supply stores and they're made to hold water so they will last longer than a plastic bin. For the cost per size they are very efficient( 100 gallons for ~$70 here), but you'll have to check on the floor space it would take up.

Make sure he is getting UVB rays either from direct sunlight (nothing in between like glass/screen or plastic) or a UVB bulb with at least 7-10% UVB rays along with the calcium that Missi suggested above. This will help his bones and shell.

If he continues to deteriorate, you should take him to a qualified Herp vet.

[missibsu]

At the size he is now, there really is no point in giong with something too small. At this point you might as well make one purchase that will meet his needs for the rest of his life. As long as you are doing that, get something that can be a permanent basking area, and a permanent filter. It's less that your costs will be later.

Also, for good deals you can check for a local freecycle group (yahoo group at www.freecycle.com), www.craigslist.com, and your local classifieds in the newspaper. I got a really good deal on my 75 gallon tank, stand a filter for 150 bucks.

[beejium]

ok i still have a couple questions... does the turtle need a light's out time? is he okay to have the lights on 24-7? right now it's at 12/12. you are talking about plastic tanks right? if it is metal won't it rust/oxidise and pollute the water? i know that, that is the case with fish. but like i said it's the first turtle i have taken care of.

[missibsu]

Yeah, the stock tanks are a heavy duty plastic. 12 and 12 is good for the lights. Most people tend to follow the sunlight's natural pattern, so in the fall and winter they may not leave the lights on quite as long.

[beejium]

in the morning we will be checking out prices on a bigger tank, better lighting, and try to get some pictures of him. any suggestions on getting better quality pictures of the turtle? is it better to take them inside or outside? are digital camera broke earlier trying to get pictures of him. and what is the best kind of filter for a 100 gallon tank?